--- Meeting begins --- People present: Hellfire667(left after 1.25 hour), PJayTycy(1 hour late) Prof_Frink(left somewere before 21:25 UTC), Vatso and Zuu People absent: Chirho, Metalcore, Mek_ and jpl Chairman : Hyronymus --- Agenda --- -- Always returning part -- - Discuss minutes - Pick new minutes man - FRD (should be complete) - Final discussion / comments on relationship between transport sorts - New featured discussion --Specific part -- - Prototype progress - Website/Wiki related issues - AOB -- End -- - Setting new date + agenda --- Discuss minutes of 31-10-2004 --- The minutes were late. but Hellfire had resons for that. Hellfire noticed that there were lot of off topic discussion at last meeting. He also asked to try to keep the meeting on topic as much as possible. --- Piciking minutes-man --- As noone volunteered Zuu offered to to the minutes, but they'll probably be late. --- FRD --- PJayTycy reported about his work with the passenger related processing of the FRD. He found conflicting ideas in some topics: 1) generation of passengers 2) initial choice of transportations service 3) destination selection 1) Some people want a city to produce a certain amount of passengers, only based on city size, while others want a city to produce more passengers if more destinations are available. Hyronymus suggested that it could be combined so that cities, indepent of size, always produce more if more destinations are available PJayTycy: some want to generate a fixed set of passengers for a city, assign them different destinations (let's say 5), and if none of these is available, remove the passenger again Hyronymus: but larger cities yield much more pasengers per destination than smaller cities. As this dicussion relay on the coming featured discussion topic "destinations" (which was decided earlier at the meeting) we decided to continue the discussion there. 2) Some want scenery, travel time, travel price, number of switch-overs, ... to all have an impact on a passenger's choice, while others just say random. Hyronymus: scnary? Zuu: Problem with taking care of to much stuff: memmory and CPU usage. Hyronymus: Depends on what the solution looks like. PJayTycy: Yes Zuu, but there are some other -gameplay / fun related- issues with a wrong choice too. Zuu said that he thinks that the Talk: page for FRD/Gameplay should be used for discussion and not what its used for now (20041212). It was suggested that the current content related to passengers should be moved to a new page. Both PJayTycy and Hyronymus said that they had ideas for transport choose. Hyronymus said that he keep his for the featured discusssion. PJayTycy did never told his on the meeting. 3) PjayTycy found a few ideas about passengers without destination, but those seemed to be not so good to him. Hyronymus reported that he went throught the rest of the FRD, but he hardly found any inconsistent. Instead he found many bad written or ill combined suggestions. Hyronymus suggested that he should rewrite the bad parts. The meeting accepted his suggestion. Zuu reported that he have an idea (167) that he didn't knew where to put. The idea was about shadows. Hyronymus suggested to place it under Core_Features - Graphics_engine, as there is other graphics related stuff there. But PJayTycy didn't agree, as he didn't think shadows is an core feature. It was agreed to place it under User Interface - Graphics as PJayTycy suggested. --- Final discussion / comments on relationship between transport sorts --- Summary (from wiki): - Ideas about how to make busses and lories used for short distance instead of trains. - Suggested to scale speed of vehicles as a pale that goes 2000 times faster than a ship might be a visulation problem. o Hellfire suggested to create a prototype. Hellfire was asigned the task to create a prototype to illustrate the issue with vehicle speeds. The prototype should just move a few vehicles over the screen, and you should be able to set their individual speeds. Hyronymus suggested to give each transport sort a accesibility variable. As a way to show that road vehicles can come almost everywere, while planes in oposite only can reach a few places. Hyronymus was suggested to continue the discussion on the wiki, which he accepted. Hellfire said that we need to have an warking engine before we can calibrate with all variables as the one Hyronymus sugested and many more. Zuu noticed that there were less discussion than exepted the last two weeks. Not to mention that there were a lot of ff topic discussion about it last meeting. Hyronymus agreed. --- New featured discussion --- Suggestions: - Destinations - Pathfinding - Production chains - Architecture design Hyronymus, Hellfire and Zuu voted for Destinations, and noone voted for anything else. Zuu was asigned the usual task to create a wiki page for the discussion, and post a link to it in the forum. --- Prototypes --- - Crystalspace: Zuu have sent an email to Crystalspace' email list, and asked them about the development of AWS. He posted the rply that he got just before the meeting. It said (in short) that AWS is only develped when someone needs something, and that we are welocome to improve it. Hyronymus wondered if we should cancel CS and use SDL instead. It was Agreed that we need to evulate the 3D part of CS before we can tell if CS is good enoght. It was suggested that Hellfire667 should ask Exinion to test the 3D part of CS. Zuu suggested that we should soon choose either to develop something with CS AWS, continue on another engine, or create a new window engine. Zuu: Before we can choose which to do we have to make a FRD for the GUI engine. Zuu suggested that he will begin on a GUI FRDbefore the next meeting. PJayTycy suggested that he should create a basic structure of the document first, and then let people fill in the ideas. - 360 degrees track-laying prototype: PjayTycy have had fun last week with making it multi-threaded, to make mouse-motion smoother. PjayTycy will continue to work on the track-laying prototype. --- Website/Wike related issues --- We havent heard anything from Chris about the backup protocol exept the wiki page that he created. (http://tt2.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Backup) Hyronymus volunteered to post a remark on the forums about it. PJayTycy wanted more structure of the wiki. He thoght that the wiki is just a buch of pages without any structure. Hyronymus said that the problem also lais in cross refference. Zuu told that the frontpage is write protceted by Chris. We agreed to structurate the wiki using categories. Zuu was choosen to add categories for our wiki. On the front page there should be a link to each category page. When Zuu is done he should post a message on the forum, in a new thread. Chris haven't yet changed http://tt2.sf.net/wiki/ to our homepage in the SF admin page, as he sad ages ago. Hyronymus volunteered to PM him about it. --- AOB --- - meeting rules: Zuu suggested that we should create a wiki page that explains the meeting rules. Rules that was suggested on the meeting: 1) Don't be off topic. 2) How far in advance to announce a meeting. 3) Listen to the chairman. 4) How many people should be there to make it a "valid" meeting. 5) Be pro-active when decisions need to be made. 6) The chairman should be opped and able to voice the present people (this suggestion was turned down, becuse: who should you ask to be opped?) Hyronymus was choosen to the task to create a meeting rules page on the wiki. Zuu made a similar document ages ago: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8468 - edit wiki: Hyronymus reminds everyone to log in if you should edit anything on the wiki. - airports: Steave: It would be more realistic for goverments to build em, then companies can use the basic terminal and runway. But you could also fund your own terminal for use. Which is how it basically works in real life. Similar kind of thing for tracks could be used.. Zuu: Wouldnt that make the game less fun? Steave: I don't see why. Airports should be expensive and you can't really just add them to cities willy nilly. Zuu: the idea to make airports modular is good i think. Hyronymus agrees PJayTycy: Yes, that's important : we have to create a FUN game, not a REALISTIC one. Zuu: but if you cont afford any airports wharts the fun of looking on the ai bilding an airport. Hyronymus: That's a good future FD I think: airport construction Steave: If an AI built one, you couldn't just hijack it.. That would be dumb. PJayTycy: We should at least be able to use the airport of a competitor. Hyronmus suggested that steve should post his idea to the suggestions topic on the forum. PJayTycy: But anyway, we're more on an "idea brainstorm" thing now than a structrured meeting. - report progress: The meeting agreed on Zuus suggestion that everyone should report their progress somewere between Christmas and new year. This should serve as a middle way report, as its 4 weeks until next meeting. All reports should be posted in the same thread. --- Next meeting --- next meeting on 2005-01-09 @ 20:15 UTC --- Todo-list --- Chris: Fix homepage property on our SF project, so it points on the wiki, and not tt-forums. (sf admin) Hellfire: Speed prototype: Tell exinion to elaborate with the 3D part of CS. Hyronymus: Discuss long dictance lorries Rewrite bad parts of FRD. Asking Chris about backup procedure. Remind Chris that he should fix the homepage pointer at SF.net to point on the wiki, not on the forum. Write meeting rules page (wiki) PJayTycy : Move passenger stuff. Continue to work on track prototype Read the log about first hour of the meeting Zuu: Update Featured Discussion to Destinations. Post aws email answer in forum Reorganize wiki. Categories: FRD + discussions + development. Make the minutes. Idea 167 => User Interface - Graphics Email Hajo and ask if write about his approach on destinations since he implemented destination in Simutrans. Write FRD for windowing system. All : Take part in the featured discussion : Destinations. Announce prototype progress in the forum. Report their progress in the progress reporting thread (first person has to create it) between Christmas and new year.