02:03 <@chirho> Note to minute taker - START HERE GODDAMMIT!  NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE THIS LINE! :p
02:04 < Hyronymus> that's pretty useless, chirho
02:04 <+Jpl> oliv3r: http://jpl.yi.org/~jpl/FunctionalRequirementsCONCEPT.txt
02:04 <@chirho> -- The real start --
02:04 <@chirho> 1. Minutes of last meeting
02:04  * oliv3r is present
02:05 <@Hellfire667> Ok, I turned on the logging function.
02:05 <@chirho> Everyone read them?
02:05 < Hyronymus> I have
02:05 <@Hellfire667> I read them. And I approve :)
02:05 < Conditional_Zen> yes
02:05 < oliv3r> i have but don't remember them much as it's been so long
02:05 <+Jpl> btw. http://jpl.yi.org/~jpl/tempire/
02:05 <+eXinion> yes :) me too
02:05 <+eXinion> i approve
02:05 <@chirho> Anything arising from the minutes?
02:06 < Hyronymus> not for me
02:06 <@chirho> So, minutes approved?
02:06 < Conditional_Zen> yes
02:06 <+eXinion> yup
02:06 < Hyronymus> yes
02:06 <@chirho> 2. Categorising ideas - update
02:07 <@chirho> Are we done?
02:07 <+eXinion> yes
02:07 <@Hellfire667> I've done my part! \o/
02:07 < Hyronymus> where can I read it?
02:07 <+eXinion> jpl knows that :p
02:07 < oliv3r> http://jpl.yi.org/~jpl/tempire/
02:07 <+eXinion> noo
02:07 <@chirho> http://jpl.yi.org/te/index.php
02:07 <@chirho> I see we now have more ideas
02:08 <@chirho> some 246 of them
02:08 <@Hellfire667> Yes, I have split a number of ideas I have encountered.
02:08 <@chirho> That makes sense
02:08 <@Hellfire667> In detail: all ideas marked with "various ideas" have been split into multiple single ideas.
02:08 <+eXinion> we should start by deleting the doubles
02:08 <+eXinion> I will do that
02:08 < Hyronymus> damn
02:09 <@Hellfire667> No, I think we should start writing the design document and include everything in the database.
02:09 <@Hellfire667> Doubles are easily found and ignored that way :)
02:09 <+eXinion> isn't that easier with a shorter list?
02:09 <+eXinion> ah okay
02:09 <@chirho> IMO, we preserve doubles as having more advocation, but only by number
02:10 < oliv3r> so idea's need a priority score or something
02:10 < oliv3r> so 'doubles' increases ones priorty
02:10 < Hyronymus> that can be done best after folowing Hellfire667's idea
02:11 <@Hellfire667> I think we should put everything reasonable in the funcReqDoc, and remove the bullshit afterwards.
02:11 <@chirho> we can better see the doubles that way - "hey, this is already in there"
02:11 <+eXinion> yeah, at least that
02:11 < oliv3r> ok
02:11 < Hyronymus> so who's gonna put it in the design doc?
02:11 < oliv3r> so the forum is now 'purged' right?
02:12 <+eXinion> yeah, there were no new replies to the topic
02:12 <+eXinion> since
02:12 <@Hellfire667> Yes, the ideas topic is "purged" and could (should?) be locked to make way for a new topic.
02:12 < oliv3r> so we gotta somehow lock the topic and start a clean one or insert a marker or something no?
02:12 < oliv3r> too slow
02:12 < Conditional_Zen> I think lock and start a new one
02:12 <+eXinion> :D
02:12 < oliv3r> Conditional_Zen i agree
02:13 <@Hellfire667> Same here.
02:13  * eXinion too
02:13 <@chirho> The old topic would sink - is this an acceptable risk?
02:13 < oliv3r> it's 'emtpy'
02:13 < Conditional_Zen> yes IMO
02:13 <@chirho> OK, then I shall do that after the meeting
02:13 < oliv3r> i think the first post should include maybe the url to the current idea's list
02:13 < Conditional_Zen> and tell people to read it
02:14 <+eXinion> I agree with oliv3r
02:14 <@Hellfire667> I don't think it would be favourable to have anyone editing or adding to the ideas list.
02:14 < oliv3r> so that people can browse that (and a link to the old topic of course) so that people don't come up with 'new' ideas
02:14 < oliv3r> oh it's private
02:14 <@chirho> The problem with the old topic is its length
02:14 < oliv3r> well they need some way of knowing what has been 'said'
02:14 < Hyronymus> yes, the URL
02:14 <@chirho> many people will just say "sod that, I'm not trawling through all those pages"
02:14 < Hyronymus> I think that'll do
02:15 < oliv3r> so maybe static dump of what we have right now as a topic start
02:15  * eXinion wouldn't trawl :p
02:15 <@Hellfire667> If it were private, it wouldn't be publicly accessible. But the database has the same problem as the ideas topic: length. Browsing through 250+ ideas is not everyone's favourite way to spend time ;)
02:15 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r: that's probably the best way to do it :)
02:15 < Hyronymus> but just letting it sink and not notifying them isn't an option too
02:15 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 well if one has an idea and would like to present this idea, he has to do some research
02:16 < oliv3r> it's not 'our' job to tell everybody
02:16 <@chirho> Now, if there were a way to say "this idea is a duplicate", we'd be sorted
02:16 < oliv3r> oh some one thought of that see idea 345 you should have looked that up yourself
02:16 <@chirho> I'm thinking in the vague direction of SF tracker
02:16 < Hyronymus> make it have a search function
02:16 <@Hellfire667> chirho: how about: make a new sticky topic, with a link to the database dump and some guidelines for submitting ideas.
02:16 < oliv3r> jpl could you add a boolean 'dupe'?
02:16 <+Jpl> everything
02:17  * Hyronymus agrees with Hellfire667
02:17 <@chirho> That seems sane
02:17 < oliv3r> i'd suggest keeping the dump on a different server just to keep people from posting on our 'real' list
02:17 < oliv3r> by 'finding' it
02:18 <+eXinion> it's already in the forum somewhere :p the url
02:18 -!- Hellfire667 [~jeroen@195.240.128.92] has left #tempire []
02:18 -!- Hellfire667 [~jeroen@195.240.128.92] has joined #tempire
02:18 -!- mode/#tempire [+o Hellfire667] by L
02:18 <@chirho> As I said, if anyone's really bored, I can create a tracker on SF called "Ideas", and use that
02:18 <+eXinion> would that be necessary?
02:18 < oliv3r> someone would have to move idea's over
02:18 < Hyronymus> what's the pro of the SF tracjer?
02:18 < oliv3r> but then it would be all password/account protected and not every morron out there could mess with it
02:19 < oliv3r> only 'we'
02:19 < oliv3r> Hyronymus ^^
02:19 <@chirho> possible scenarios
02:19 <+eXinion> you've got a point there
02:19 < oliv3r> disadvantage is it has to be moved over there
02:19 <@chirho> 1. Everyone can add ideas - each gets its own comment thread
02:19 < oliv3r> which is labor intensive
02:20 <@chirho> 2. Not everyone can assign ideas to categories - only the people that know what they're doing :)
02:20 <+Jpl> chirho: comment thread can be done easily
02:20 <@Hellfire667> Perhaps we could use the SF tracker whenever the FuncReqDoc is finished. That way, when people would like to submit new ideas (and hence cause a change in the document), we would first have to approve.
02:20 < Hyronymus> ok, here's my idea
02:20 < oliv3r> Jpl the thing is once you let the common folk easly reach it, it's gonna get messy
02:20 <@chirho> Jpl: Yes, but it's code you don't have to write, because it's already there fore us
02:20 < Hyronymus> first finish the funcreqdoc
02:20 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 good point.
02:20 <+Jpl> chirho: I have the code already ;)
02:20 < Hyronymus> once that's done, port it to the SF tracker
02:21 < oliv3r> Hyronymus in something other then 'word' : )
02:21 <@chirho> Still, we've got the facility, and we're not using it
02:21 < Hyronymus> not using it yet, chirho
02:21 < oliv3r> that and it'll be on sf's servers which is a bonus i think
02:21 < oliv3r> but i agree with hellfire
02:21 < Hyronymus> let's make one extra step to deliver a better produtc
02:21 < oliv3r> i think we should start the tracker once the sxw is finished
02:21 <@chirho> I still think it would make more sense to move the ideas over there - it would be much easier for us all to manage
02:22 <+eXinion> First making the doc is a good idea... 
02:22 < Hyronymus> who agrees with finishing doc first?
02:22  * Hyronymus does
02:22  * Jpl does also
02:22  * eXinion does
02:22  * oliv3r does
02:22 <@chirho> Then we never do it
02:22  * Conditional_Zen does
02:22 <@chirho> When is the doc finished?
02:22 <@Hellfire667> chirho: is there a way to do a batch upload of ideas into the SF tracker?
02:22 < Hyronymus> I said FIRST, chirho
02:22 < oliv3r> there's only actuall 'NEW' idea's there
02:22 <@chirho> Hyronymus:  Exactly.  When is the doc ever ni a state where it's completely finished?
02:23 <+eXinion> batch upload is not efficient, there are a lot of doubles
02:23 <@chirho> Surely such a document would be dynamic
02:23 <+Jpl> I can get a SQL dump from ideas.
02:23 <@chirho> eXinion: Yes, but we can mark doubles already
02:23 < oliv3r> chirho draft version
02:23 < oliv3r> a bit more then what we have now
02:23 <+eXinion> okay
02:23 < Hyronymus> chirho, we just discussed we would use the list that's one jpl's site, didn't we
02:24 < Hyronymus> so we take that list as our starting point, integrate it into the funcreqdoc and then post the ideas that 'survived' on the SF tracker
02:24 <@Hellfire667> I agree, Hyr.
02:24 < Hyronymus> \o/
02:24 <@chirho> So, any volunteers to write the docs?
02:24 < Hyronymus> must be our name, Hellfire667 ;)
02:24 <+eXinion> I also think that's the best order
02:25  * eXinion will help chirho
02:25 < oliv3r> I say we first finish our initial draft versioN (a useable semi compleet) once that's done, we start a tracker with 'new' new idea's (or idea's that are simply not (yet) accepted) and then after features get accepted they come into the doc
02:25 <@chirho> I'm still waiting on word from the mediawiki folk
02:25 <@chirho> installing another wiki, and hten losing all hte data from it, or spending forever migrating would be rather a pain
02:25 <@chirho> oliv3r: The main problem is marking duplicates
02:26 <@chirho> We can say "This is a duplicate of idea #42"
02:26 < oliv3r> chirho jpl said he could/would add a 'dupe' boolean
02:26 <+Jpl> dupe boolean isn't enough :)
02:26 <@chirho> However, "This is a duplicate of something which isn't in the tracker" is less useful
02:26 < oliv3r> or a collumn with int's, 'dupe' or something
02:26 <+Jpl> more columns needed indeed
02:26 <@chirho> Or, we could stop writing code that does stuff we've already got the tools for :)
02:26 < Hyronymus> how about crossreferencing hyperthreads?
02:26 < oliv3r> well a dupe can only be of one
02:27 < oliv3r> otherwise it needs to be split : 
02:27 <@chirho> Hyronymus: English please? ;)
02:27 < oliv3r> an idea can has only one 'parent'
02:27 < oliv3r> Jpl so add a column 'dupe' of type integer : )
02:27  * Hyronymus would like to discusss that with oliv3r outside the current meeting
02:28 < oliv3r> if value is > 0 it's a dupe
02:28 <@chirho> If "crossreferencing hyperthreads" means what I think it means, then the SF tracker already does that
02:28 <@chirho> and it would be a waste of time to add more functionality to something outside, when the SF tracker does all of this already
02:29 <@Hellfire667> Come on, people! We're talking about a list of ideas here. Once that document is written, people will start discussing the document. Not the list of ideas it was based upon! For new ideas, we could use the SF tracker.
02:29 < oliv3r> so we'll keep jpl's site until our draft is finished and then we switch to SF tracker to minimize the idea's that need to be transferd
02:29 < Hyronymus> I meant that if you have a duplicate, you can click it and it refers you to a similar idea
02:29 <@chirho> Hyronymus: In which case, that's what I thought it was
02:29 < Hyronymus> ok Hellfire667
02:29 <@chirho> and SF does that
02:29 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 that's what we're sayin' : )
02:29 < Hyronymus> he was summarizing
02:29 <+Jpl> stop now :)
02:29 <@chirho> it's nothing short of a waste of time to add code somewhere else that does exactly that, when we've got the tools to do it
02:29 < Hyronymus> but... :p
02:29 <+eXinion> so, who'll start on the doc?
02:30 < oliv3r> chirho I agree, but it's gonna be apain to move over all the idea's, once our draft of the document is completed a lot of the idea's will go away
02:30 < oliv3r> eXinion hellfire did
02:30 <@Hellfire667> Just a question: who HASN'T read the concept document?
02:30 <@chirho> <-
02:30 < Hyronymus> I have
02:30 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 i read the .txt version jpl put up
02:30 <@chirho> Can we have it in a real format please?
02:30 < oliv3r> but not your word evilness
02:30 < Hyronymus> hehe
02:31 < oliv3r> go chris!! lol
02:31 < Hyronymus> be real, step aside that word-shit for now
02:31 < oliv3r> i don't have any office application installed
02:31 < Hyronymus> Hellfire667 explained why it's in word for now
02:31 <@chirho> HTML would be useful - it at least preserves the formatting, and doesn't require me to install lots of crap for me to read it :)
02:31 < oliv3r> i couldn't 'just' read it
02:31 <@Hellfire667> I would like to apologize for my abuse of processor time :P
02:31 < oliv3r> thank you chris, again : )
02:32 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 as you know not everybody here uses windows all the time : )
02:32 <+eXinion> so, who'll start putting the ideas in the doc? :)
02:32 <@Hellfire667> Neither do I, but I was using windows at the time.
02:32 <@chirho> I am NOT waiting for 120MB of OpenOffice RPM to download.  Link to the .txt please?
02:32 < Hyronymus> OT
02:32 < Hyronymus> stop it plz
02:32 <+Jpl> http://jpl.yi.org/~jpl/FunctionalRequirementsCONCEPT.txt
02:32 < oliv3r> chirho there : )
02:32 < Hyronymus> <+eXinion> so, who'll start putting the ideas in the doc? :)
02:32 < oliv3r> i'll 'start'
02:33 < oliv3r> but before just bluntly putting them in
02:33 < Hyronymus> can anyone answer that very good question?
02:33 < Hyronymus> ok
02:33 < oliv3r> they need to be discussed before and after with the technical architects i think or atleast afterwards?
02:33 <@Hellfire667> eXinion already offered to assist in writing the FRD
02:33 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r: yes, at least afterwards.
02:34 < oliv3r> ok so we now move on to the next agenda point?
02:34  * Jpl is going to make database browseable by one idea per page...
02:34 <+eXinion> @hellfire: we should work seperately on putting them in, so doubles aren't written twice :p
02:34 <@Hellfire667> Or we could just use the CVS and have a up to date copy each time we work on it.
02:34 < oliv3r> i'll emerge OOo then
02:34 <@chirho> Why can't people put line-breaks in text files? >_<
02:35 <@Hellfire667> to "emerge" is not a transitive verb :P (quoting chirho)
02:35 <+Jpl> oliv3r: huh, scary :)
02:35 < oliv3r> lol I know, that's why I use it : )
02:35 <@Hellfire667> (I have Gentoo too) <- OT
02:35 < oliv3r> I think the doc should be easly readable in a text editor
02:35 < Hyronymus> don't waste my sleep time guys
02:35 <@chirho> Indeed it should.  However, in its current state, it's not. :(
02:35 <@Hellfire667> So eXinion and I start working on the document. Any other volunteers? (We'll discuss file format in just a moment, OK Oliv3r?)
02:36 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 I just started with Gentoo 12 days ago, i'm a slacker : ) (OT) nuff of that)
02:36 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 okay
02:36 <@chirho> That sounds good
02:36 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 I voulenteerd allready
02:36 < Hyronymus> I don't know how much time I have this week
02:37 <@Hellfire667> I have a decent amount of time available, so I could do parts of it.
02:37 <@Hellfire667> So we have for volunteers: oliv3r, eXinion, Hellfire667
02:37  * eXinion too :)
02:38 < Hyronymus> he takes a double workload
02:38 < oliv3r> good job exinion : )
02:38 <@Hellfire667> About the file format. Tex(info) and docbook have come across the discussion on the forum. Are there any other universal markup languages which can generate documents in various file formats?
02:38 <+Jpl> html
02:39 <+Jpl> err. well, not that.
02:39 <+Jpl> :)
02:39  * eXinion has to learn both, so it could take a while longer
02:39 <@chirho> That would be a target, rather than a source :)
02:39 <+Jpl> yes :)
02:39 < oliv3r> plain old .txt : )
02:39 <+eXinion> shall we choose Tex? 
02:39 <+Jpl> that would be a result too
02:40  * Hellfire667 too, but "learning" a markup language isn't that hard. I "learned" LaTeX in 5 hours or so. Adding stuff to a document is always easier than starting from scratch.
02:40  * eXinion has a little bit of experience in that
02:40 <@chirho> If we want to be really awkward, we could use troff :P
02:40 <+eXinion> let's not chirho :p 
02:40 <+Jpl> or we could have a web-interface where you could get .txt .html .xml .pdf or even .doc ;)
02:40 <@Metalcore424> back!
02:40  * Hellfire667 doesn't want to be awkward :P
02:40 < oliv3r> Jpl NO! lol
02:40 <@chirho> My money's on texinfo, probably because I already know some TeX
02:40  * chirho examines SF's doc manager
02:41 <+Jpl> oliv3r: no, I'm not going to do that.
02:41 <@Hellfire667> texinfo is the GNU tool for the job.
02:41 < Hyronymus> are both free programs?
02:41 <@Hellfire667> Texinfo is the official documentation format of the GNU project. It was invented by Richard Stallman and Bob Chassell many years ago, loosely based on Brian Reid's Scribe and other formatting languages of the time. It is used by many non-GNU projects as well.
02:41 <@Hellfire667> Hyronymus: yes, both are open source.
02:41 < Hyronymus> k
02:42 <+eXinion> everyone for Texinfo raise your hand
02:42  * eXinion raises hand
02:42 <@chirho> o/
02:42  * Jpl raises both
02:42 <@Hellfire667>  DocBook is a document type definition (DTD) in SGML and XML. It is particularly well suited to books and papers about computer hardware and software (though it is by no means limited to these applications).
02:42 < oliv3r> i say docbook
02:42 < oliv3r> : )
02:42 < Conditional_Zen> I think Texinfo or Docbook, dont mind which
02:42  * Metalcore424 raises no hands
02:42 <@Hellfire667> SGML/XML markup sounds nice. :)
02:42 <+eXinion> that's 3 to 1 :p
02:43 <+eXinion> 3 to 2 :p
02:43 <@chirho> We can express mathematical and algorithmic concepts better in texinfo, so that should be our choice
02:43 <@chirho> 4 if we count Jpl's other hand :D
02:43  * Hellfire667 has no experience in either markup, so I can't really choose. If I had to, it would be docbook. I somehow like XML.
02:43 <@Metalcore424> I have no opinion
02:43 < oliv3r> i know the howto's are written in docbook
02:43 < oliv3r> and i think the man pages in texinfo?
02:43 < Hyronymus> no opinion either, noth are new to me
02:43 <@chirho> man pages are in troff
02:43 < Hyronymus> *both
02:43 <@Hellfire667> info pages are in texinfo
02:43 < Conditional_Zen> Is this the format for the enitre project or just FuncReq Doc?
02:44 <+Jpl> could be for entire project
02:44 <@chirho> I think it should be our standard format for any and all docs
02:44 <@Hellfire667> Entire project. Or at least, all documents written for the project.
02:44 < oliv3r> i think _all_ documetnation
02:44 <+eXinion> yeah
02:44 < oliv3r> to keep things concitent
02:44 <+Jpl> well.. agreed!
02:44 < oliv3r> so docbook ok texinfo
02:44 < oliv3r> what requires the least to isntall : )
02:45 <@chirho> no idea
02:45 <@chirho> but it should be texinfo for practical reasons
02:45 <+Jpl> well... I'll take a look at both
02:45 < oliv3r> texinfo you have to compile right? where docbook only needs to be 'converted'
02:45 <@chirho> oliv3r: They might as well be the same thing
02:45 < oliv3r> i vote texinfo
02:45 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r converting==compiling. :)
02:45 <+Jpl> http://www.docbook.org/ vs http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/
02:45 <+Jpl> TAKE A LOOK! :-)
02:45 <@Hellfire667> Jpl: no, http://docbook.sourceforge.net :)
02:46 <+Jpl> oh, damn didn't read what they said
02:46 <@Hellfire667> http://docbook.org/tdg/ (read the docbook book)
02:46 <+Jpl> lol
02:46 < oliv3r> i voted texinfo so we have like wahat 5:1?
02:46 <+eXinion> something like that
02:46 <@Metalcore424> 5:0 i think....
02:46 <+eXinion> majority :p
02:46 <@chirho> "DocBook NG is a RELAX NG reimplementation of DocBook."
02:46 <@Metalcore424> who boted docbook?
02:47 <@Metalcore424> voted, even
02:47 <@chirho> That will be the version of docbook that wants you not to do it, when you want to ...
02:47 < oliv3r> i voted
02:47 <@chirho> Resolved: Texinfo shall be the file format for documentation sources.
02:47 <@Hellfire667> examples:
02:47 < oliv3r> i changed my voted : )
02:47 <+eXinion> so.. everything deceided now?
02:47 <@Hellfire667> beginning of texinfo files: http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/manual/texinfo/texinfo.html#Sample-Beginning
02:48 <@Hellfire667> beginning of docbook files: http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/ch02.html#ch02-makexml
02:48 < oliv3r> So we need someone to make a nice template then : )
02:48 <@Metalcore424>  what do you need to view texinfo/docbook files?
02:48 < oliv3r> and someone to find some tools that makes using texinfo easy
02:48 < oliv3r> notepad
02:48 <@Metalcore424> ah
02:48 <@Metalcore424> that's good
02:48 < Hyronymus> bit OT, are the Civ3 text files in TexInfo too?
02:48 <@Hellfire667> Evan: Acrobat Reader. Or notepad. Or Internet Explorer. Or Mozilla.
02:48 < oliv3r> acrobat reader when's a pdf or mozilla if it's a html
02:48 <@Metalcore424> i see.
02:48 < Conditional_Zen> Hyro: plain text
02:49 < Hyronymus> ok
02:49 <+eXinion> next topic please :)
02:49 <@Metalcore424> (kick me if this has been brought up already) what's the advantages?
02:49 < oliv3r> we could use ooo .xsw format, which is xml.bz2 :)
02:49 <@Hellfire667> wait... What are we going to use?
02:49 <@Metalcore424> over plaintext
02:49 < oliv3r> plaintext has no markup
02:49 <+eXinion> we're using texinfo
02:49 <@chirho> Metalcore424: Structure, mainly
02:49 < oliv3r> you can't add hyperlinks or whatever, .txt is very basic and very limited
02:49 <@Metalcore424> ah, i see
02:50 <@chirho> So, to repeat ...
02:50 <@chirho> <chirho> Resolved: Texinfo shall be the file format for documentation sources.
02:50 < oliv3r> texinfo can be easly converted to many formats
02:50 <@Metalcore424> 'long as I don't have to download anything extra :P
02:50 <@Hellfire667> chirho: how many votes for each documentation system?
02:50 <@chirho> I lost count
02:50 <@chirho> though the difference was at least two
02:50 <@Hellfire667> bah
02:50 <@Hellfire667> :P
02:50 < oliv3r> Metalcore424 a descent webbrowser
02:50 <@chirho> something like 4-1
02:50 <+eXinion> 5 to 1 or 5 to 2
02:51  * Metalcore424 uses firefox
02:51 <@chirho> man, I really *did* lose count ...
02:51 < oliv3r> 4:1 or 5:0
02:51 < oliv3r> Metalcore424 then you have everything you need : 
02:51 <@chirho> oliv3r: Depending on what?
02:51 < oliv3r> hellfires vote
02:51 <@Hellfire667> To help chirho: all in favour of texinfo raise your hand :)
02:51  * eXinion !
02:51 <@chirho> So, 4:0 with 1 abstaining?
02:52  * Conditional_Zen abstains
02:52 <@Metalcore424> I have no vote. because I don't know enough
02:52 <+eXinion> well come on
02:52 <+eXinion> :)
02:52 < oliv3r> so this topic has been completed
02:52 <@chirho> Let's just record it as texinfo 4:0, since that's the best info we have
02:52 < oliv3r> erm item
02:52 <@Metalcore424> yes
02:52 <@Hellfire667> yeah... Let's use texinfo. 
02:52 <@chirho> So, Design doc discussion done
02:53 <@chirho> Any other discussion on other file formats matters needed?
02:53 < oliv3r> dunno, i said what I had to say
02:53 <@Metalcore424> so, what has been discussed so far. Idea categorizing, etc, and doc format?
02:53 < oliv3r> I think the forum topic covers pretty much all
02:53 <@Hellfire667> I still think we should make our own format for storing 3d models.
02:53 <+eXinion> I don't :p
02:53 <@chirho> Why?
02:53 < oliv3r> Hellfire667 that isn't really want's important
02:53 <+eXinion> that's pretty much work
02:54 < oliv3r> what is important is to get a fileformat for outsiders to store it in
02:54 <@chirho> if you write your own format, then you have to deal with import filters
02:54 <@chirho> (yuck)
02:54 < oliv3r> so that we don't ahve to worry about .blend .3ds .whatever
02:54 < oliv3r> i emerged blender the other day
02:54 <@Hellfire667> And using our own format would allow us to do precalculation on the 3d models.
02:55 < oliv3r> and looked at it's 'export' features
02:55 <@chirho> We should go for whichever format best allows us to read the data from the file
02:55 <@chirho> if that means using 3DS Max files, and making Blender users export to 3DS, then so be it.
02:55 < oliv3r> and saw something called 'dxf' which I think is somewhat of a standard
02:55 <@chirho> (or vice versa)
02:56 < oliv3r> it's plain text format
02:56 <@Metalcore424> as long as blender, 3dS max, and Lightwave can be used, we should be good
02:56 < Conditional_Zen> are these all free formats?
02:56 < oliv3r> so I think using dxf for model data should be fine
02:56 < oliv3r> Conditional_Zen only blender is really
02:56 <@Metalcore424> yes
02:56 <@chirho> Is the 3DS format documented freely?
02:56 <@Hellfire667> Lightwave has a relatively simple file format. I can write a filter that converts LightWave data into practically anything.
02:56 < oliv3r> 3ds max's file format is free and well documented
02:56 <@Metalcore424> 3DS and Lightwave are only free illegally :P
02:56 < oliv3r> i dind't think so
02:57 <@Metalcore424> then I think we're good
02:57 <@Hellfire667> Evan, we're talking about the file formats here :P
02:57 <@Metalcore424> I know
02:57 < Hyronymus> hehe
02:57 <@chirho> and since I guess that other things can export 3DS files
02:57 <@Metalcore424> but still
02:57 < oliv3r> cos I don't think 3d's is
02:57 <@Hellfire667> Lightwave's file format is very well documented.
02:57 <@chirho> "Was this generated with a legal 3DS Max?"
02:57 <+eXinion> Let's discuss this after some research on the issue
02:57 <@chirho> "No, it was exported from Blender"
02:57 < oliv3r> i didn't see a 3ds export feature in blender
02:57 <@Hellfire667> http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/developer/75lwsdk/docs/filefmts/lwo2.html
02:57 < oliv3r> but i dunno about 3d stuff
02:58  * Conditional_Zen agrees with eXinion
02:58 <@Metalcore424> yeah, Blender doesn't have a 3ds export
02:58 <@Metalcore424> I've tried
02:58  * chirho googles dxf
02:58 < Hyronymus> dxf is old
02:58 < oliv3r> as said, what I saw in blender is taht it can save .blend, .dxf, save image, save videoscape and save vrml
02:58 <@chirho> dxf is autocad
02:59 < oliv3r> now i know .blend is not a text file, but it should be well documented
02:59 < Hyronymus> but if it doesn't loose data during export/import
02:59 < oliv3r> ah hah, well .dxf is 'plain text'
02:59 <@Hellfire667> vrml is a text file, but vrml was a faillure
02:59 < oliv3r> what it basically is:
02:59 < oliv3r> oliver@constanze oliver $ head new_bank.blend.dxf 
02:59 < oliv3r> 0
02:59 < oliv3r> SECTION
02:59 < oliv3r> 2
02:59 < oliv3r> HEADER
02:59 < oliv3r> 0
02:59 < oliv3r> ENDSEC
02:59 < oliv3r> 0
02:59 < oliv3r> SECTION
03:00 -!- oliv3r was kicked from #tempire by ^XP^ [flood]
03:00 <@Hellfire667> LOL
03:00 -!- oliv3r [oliver@t-26-5.athome.tue.nl] has joined #tempire
03:00 <@chirho> slow down, will you :P
03:00 < oliv3r> i only pasted 10 lines :
03:00 -!- mode/#tempire [-o ^XP^] by Metalcore424
03:00  * Hellfire667 slaps ^XP^ around a bit with a large trout
03:00 -!- mode/#tempire [+o ^XP^] by chirho
03:00 < oliv3r> but again, i dunno much about 3d stuff
03:00 <@chirho> Leave it ...
03:00 -!- mode/#tempire [-o ^XP^] by Hellfire667
03:00  * eXinion just fell asleep :)
03:00 -!- mode/#tempire [+o ^XP^] by chirho
03:00 <@Metalcore424> it's auto, i think
03:00 <+Jpl> hey
03:00 -!- mode/#tempire [-oo ^XP^ chirho] by Metalcore424
03:01 -!- mode/#tempire [+ir] by Metalcore424
03:01 -!- mode/#tempire [+o chirho] by L
03:01 <@Metalcore424> bah
03:01 < oliv3r> but I think our original models should be blender files
03:01 -!- mode/#tempire [-irc] by Metalcore424
03:01 <@Metalcore424> -irc?
03:01 -!- mode/#tempire [+c] by Metalcore424
03:01 <+Jpl> I'd prefer 3ds files
03:01 <@Metalcore424> ok, I'm done
03:01 <@chirho> lol
03:01 <@Metalcore424> I killed irc :P
03:01 -!- mode/#tempire [+o ^XP^] by chirho
03:01 < oliv3r> and have whoever is in charge of graphics 'finalize' it
03:01 <@chirho> Now leave it there ...
03:01 < oliv3r> i'm desynced aren't I
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03:01 < oliv3r> test
03:01 <@chirho> no, you're not
03:01 < oliv3r> now it' fixed
03:01 <@Metalcore424> nope
03:02 < oliv3r> and have whoever is in charge of graphics 'finalize' it
03:02 <@chirho> Anyone in charge of graphics?
03:02 < oliv3r> so we have blender ifles in the 'archi've
03:02  * Jpl is good at 3d-graphics
03:02 < oliv3r> well arathorn think wanted that job
03:02 < oliv3r> but now were to be found
03:02 <@Hellfire667> Then Arathorn should start attending some meetings ;)
03:02 <@Metalcore424> Hellfire, you were coding the graphics with rein, weren't you?
03:02 < oliv3r> Jpl why would you prefer 3ds over blend for files
03:02 <@Hellfire667> Actually, I was.
03:03 <+Jpl> oliv3r: my software exports in 3ds
03:03 <@Hellfire667> And rein is a real text-file fanatic.
03:03 <@chirho> So, given no objections, Arathorn ot get that role, pending his actaully turning up at some meetings
03:03 < Hyronymus> I'm off guys. I can't stay awake much longer I guess
03:03 <@Hellfire667> Welterusten!
03:03 < oliv3r> Hyronymus aight, bye
03:03 < Hyronymus> Make wise decisions or postppne them
03:03 <+eXinion> g'night
03:03 <@Metalcore424> Gute nacht!
03:03 < Conditional_Zen> bye
03:03 -!- Hyronymus [borgirc-nl@Hyronymus.users.quakenet.org] has quit [Read error: EOF from client]
03:04 < oliv3r> But I belive having blender files for our models gives us the freedom to convert it to whatever we can (legally etc etc) because it's an open format
03:04 <+Jpl> we would have blender importer
03:04 <@Hellfire667> I made a filter for rein, which converted .lwo files to textfiles.
03:04 < oliv3r> and I know that blender is used more and more these days
03:04 <+Jpl> I think there is 3ds to blender converters
03:04 <@chirho> Given the time in some parts of the world, shall we try to move on?
03:04 < oliv3r> taht and I don't wannag et in tourble with 3ds : )
03:05  * eXinion agrees chirho
03:05  * Hellfire667 agrees with chirho.
03:05  * Conditional_Zen agrees
03:05 <@chirho> wow - simulagreement :)
03:05 <+Jpl> there is .ase formats etc.
03:05  * Metalcore424 doesn't care, it's only 7 PM here :P
03:05 <@chirho> So, file formats aside ...
03:05 <+Jpl> 3.05 AM ;)
03:05 <@chirho> Any Other Business?
03:05 <+Jpl> website?
03:05 < oliv3r> yeah
03:05 <+eXinion> website for TEmpire?
03:05 < oliv3r> chirho i posted new item in the meetings topic
03:05 <+eXinion> I wanna :p
03:06 <@chirho> well, I guess it makes sense to stick the website on the SF space
03:06 <@chirho> once I've established what limits, if any, we have
03:06 <+eXinion> yeah
03:06 <@chirho> (i.e. any stupid limits on databases, etc.)
03:06 < oliv3r> agreed
03:07 <@Metalcore424> right
03:07 <@chirho> In fairness, should we put the design up for tender?
03:07 <+eXinion> what does that mean?
03:07 <+Jpl> I don't yet stop at file formats, 3ds exporting is possible from many programs and it is commonly supported etc, and 3d studio uses its own .max format, .3ds is import/export only ;)
03:07 <+Jpl> now I stop.
03:07 <@chirho> ...
03:08 < oliv3r> Jpl after meeting we can continue a bit : )
03:08 <@chirho> Thank you
03:08 <+eXinion> chirho, putting up for tender means what/
03:08 <+eXinion> ?
03:08 < oliv3r> yeah what kind of tender?
03:08 -!- Hellfire667 is now known as Hellfire|Thirst
03:08 <@chirho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender
03:08 <+Jpl> steamer-tender? :-)
03:08 <@Metalcore424> damn, beat me to it :P
03:09 <@Hellfire|Thirst> tenders, a type of railroad car hauled immediately after the locomotive proper that contains the fuel and water
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03:09 <@chirho> We put out an announcement with a rough idea of our needs, people send us offers, in private
03:09 < oliv3r> i don't have any money, i'm broke
03:09  * eXinion has not money either :p
03:09 <+eXinion> we can make a website ourselves, right?
03:09 <@chirho> We can, but we'd all have differing ideas over the design
03:10 <@Hellfire|Thirst> right!
03:10 < oliv3r> i don't care about the website
03:10 <+eXinion> yeah, true, that could be left to the graphics designers
03:10 < oliv3r> as long as it's simple and doesn't use to much fancy flash/java shit
03:10 <@chirho> Hence we put the design out to tender
03:10 < oliv3r> ah
03:10 <@chirho> people come up with an idea, send us their ideas
03:10 < oliv3r> yeah tender away
03:10 <+Jpl> well I can make something to you.
03:10 <@chirho> preferably not in public view
03:10 <@Hellfire|Thirst> like in some ancient topic was done before.
03:11 <@chirho> (needs to be fair)
03:11 < oliv3r> jpl our webguru
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03:11 <+eXinion> sure, tender-ing is a good idea :)
03:11 <+Jpl> oliv3r: "one of them"
03:11 <@chirho> We would need specifications for the design
03:11 <@Hellfire|Thirst> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=2942
03:11 <@Hellfire|Thirst> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=3189
03:12 <+Jpl> yep
03:12 <@chirho> guidelines, dos and donts, any other rules
03:12  * eXinion is turning in... I'll read the rest of the meeting in the minutes
03:13 < oliv3r> but nobody cares here : )
03:13 <+eXinion> see you later, it's been fun ;)
03:13 < oliv3r> cos it's just a website : )
03:13 < oliv3r> eXinion truste
03:13 < Conditional_Zen> bye eXinion
03:13 <+eXinion> byebye
03:13 <@chirho> Still, for some people it may become the first point of contact
03:13 <@chirho> nn
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03:13 <@Hellfire|Thirst> Umm... Yeah. I'm a programmer. Not a designer. I don't have imagination and I lack common taste ;)
03:13 < oliv3r> chirho oh i entirely agree, but, as hellfire says, that's us
03:14 < oliv3r> we couldn't care less if it where a .txt with some info online : )
03:14 <@chirho> It will be the first point of contact for *other people* at some point
03:14 < oliv3r> so someone who knows a few things about websites shoulld make design req.
03:14 <@Hellfire|Thirst> I think we should have some creative people get wild and show us the results. From there we could adjust or reject things :)
03:14 < oliv3r> that is the easyiest and lazies way for us : )
03:14 <@Hellfire|Thirst> (where creative is not some company producing sound cards) ;)
03:14  * Jpl is creative in some way
03:15 < oliv3r> Jpl if you wanna do a concept : )
03:15 <@chirho> Essentially, the site *must* be:
03:15 <+Jpl> (I don't own a creative)
03:15 <@chirho> 1. good-looking
03:15 <@chirho> 2. accessible
03:15 <+Jpl> lol @ 1.
03:15 < oliv3r> 3. simple but informative
03:15 <@Hellfire|Thirst> 4. not frame based
03:15 <@chirho> scrap 4 in favour of ...
03:15 < oliv3r> 4 == 3!
03:15 <+Jpl> 5 = 4 = 3
03:16 <@Hellfire|Thirst> i = sqrt(-1)
03:16 < oliv3r> that should be enough for now
03:16 <@chirho> 4. should not require anything above minimum technology - because I'm too lazy to grab plugins :P
03:16 <+Jpl> html 4.01 ought to be enough for anybody
03:16 <@Hellfire|Thirst> Addition to 4: no Flash. What ever you do, NO FLASH.
03:16 <@chirho> no frames, no flash, no java
03:16 < oliv3r> 4 == 3!!
03:17 < oliv3r> i rephrase 3
03:17 < oliv3r> 3. technologically simple, yet highly informative
03:17 <@chirho> and only javascript that doesn't break the page for people that have it turned off
03:17  * Jpl doesn't use flash or java
03:17 <@Hellfire|Thirst> Real webdesigners don't use flash or java.
03:17 < oliv3r> it has to cleanly come through w3c's validator
03:17 <@Metalcore424> what's wrong with frames??
03:17 <+Jpl> php can kill javascript easily :)
03:18 < oliv3r> they are a pain
03:18 <@chirho> Metalcore424: What's right with them?
03:18 <@Hellfire|Thirst> Just flashy wizzkids who think they can code html with their frontpage editor :P
03:18 < oliv3r> a webpage should be simple and load fast
03:18 <+Jpl> frames are useful in some places
03:18 < oliv3r> on any connectio
03:18 <@chirho> and cheap consultancy companies that charge you £150,000 for a rebranding only to give you the same logo back
03:18 <@chirho> My idea of a well-designed and simple site: advogato.org
03:19 < oliv3r> houseofmozart.com is better
03:19 <@chirho> clean, simple, and probably valid too
03:19 <@Metalcore424> my (crappy) site uses frames for a menu
03:19 < oliv3r> cos i made it : )
03:19 <@chirho> Why are some names enclosed in `backticks`?
03:20 <@chirho> Are you planning on forking Provencal to a subshell? :P
03:20 <@Hellfire|Thirst> actually, here's my site (in dutch, but the layout is important ;) ) http://www.caecilia-fun.nl
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03:20 <@Metalcore424> ruby uses backticks for system calls
03:20 < oliv3r> chirho oh my dad 'updates' his menu and he likes it that way I suppose
03:20 <@Metalcore424> C: system("pause")
03:20 <@Metalcore424> Ruby: `pause`
03:20 <@Metalcore424> ..i think
03:21 <@chirho> in lots of languages
03:21 <+Jpl> php: system("pause")
03:21 <@chirho> in many cases, it's used for forking processed
03:21 <@chirho> <?php echo `ls`; ?> is one way of doing a directory listing
03:21 <@Hellfire|Thirst> I'm going to get something to drink. Brb!
03:22 <@chirho> So, we're all agreed on the plain-and-simple approach
03:22 < oliv3r> my dad just gets the admin page with text boxes and copy pastes his word crap in it
03:22 < Conditional_Zen> yes
03:22 <@chirho> none of this fancy crap that OTTD has used
03:22 < oliv3r> he doesn't care about tick orientation
03:22 < oliv3r> so
03:22 < oliv3r> next item
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03:22 <@chirho> any other other business/
03:22 < oliv3r> ya
03:23 < Conditional_Zen> I can't make meetings at this time in the future
03:23 <@chirho> Too early?
03:23 < oliv3r> but a) arathorn isn't here, b) thombe whatever his name was isn't here
03:23 <@Metalcore424> tombe
03:23 < Conditional_Zen> no, other commitrments
03:23 < oliv3r> Conditional_Zen ok so next time we
03:23 < oliv3r> 'll have them at 21:00 UTC?
03:24 < Conditional_Zen> 7 AM here
03:24 <@chirho> yeah, htat would be a bit harsh
03:24 <@Hellfire|Thirst> Zen, what would be a good time for you?
03:24 <@Metalcore424> 5 pm here
03:24 < oliv3r> 20:00? : p
03:24 < oliv3r> how about 17:00 UTC
03:24 < Conditional_Zen> probabbly bad times for everyone else
03:25 -!- Hellfire|Thirst is now known as Hellfire667
03:25 < oliv3r> it's time to move
03:25 <@Metalcore424> on
03:25 <@chirho> Any *other* other business?
03:25 < oliv3r> yah
03:25 <@chirho> Let's let oliv3r go this time
03:25 <@Hellfire667> So Jpl is going to make a concept for a website or are we going to recruite some webdesigner(s)?
03:26 < oliv3r> we need to assemble an architectual team
03:26 <@chirho> What would be its function?
03:26 < oliv3r> to discuss architectual (technical) desicions
03:26 <@chirho> ok
03:26 <@Metalcore424> in english?
03:26 < oliv3r> seperate meetings so that 'others' don't get botherd by it basically
03:26 <@Hellfire667> And what would this team need as input?
03:26 < oliv3r> with people that know what we are talking about
03:26 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r: separate meetings -> good point!
03:27 < oliv3r> software architectual design desisions
03:27 < Conditional_Zen> public minutes?
03:27 < oliv3r> public yes
03:27 <@Hellfire667> but private meetings. 
03:27 <+Jpl> Hellfire667: maybe
03:27 <@Hellfire667> Or at least moderated ;)
03:27 <@chirho> I see what you mean - newbie get confused hearing about terms like "recursive spinlock" and "abstract object class"
03:28  * Metalcore424 can probably moderate them
03:28 < oliv3r> or
03:28 <@Metalcore424> even though I'll have no idea what's being talked about...
03:28 < oliv3r> memory managment in that part needs to be re-evaluated and re-designed
03:28 < oliv3r> or whatever technical stuff we come up with
03:28 < oliv3r> ok very down and basic
03:29 <@chirho> I suppose giving known developers, or people that know what they're talking about, voices on-channel, we can easliy slip into +m mode for such discussions
03:29 < oliv3r> we should use a for loop here instead of a while loop as we only use one incrementor
03:29 <@Hellfire667> "There seems to be a fault in the vehicle factory class which presents itself as bug number 215 on SF"
03:29 <@chirho> though I agree that we should know which members of the team will be in on such discussions
03:29 < oliv3r> that's not architectual design, but ya even that could go
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03:30 < oliv3r> should we have one or two classes for vehicles and why
03:30 <@Metalcore424> chris: will do
03:30 < oliv3r> that's a good example : )
03:30 < oliv3r> what properties should vehicles have and why
03:30 <@Metalcore424> of course, to get voice, one needs a Q account (this means you, oliv3r)
03:30 <@chirho> setting up another IRC channel would be a little overkill, but having metings dedicated to certain topics to me seems like a very good idea
03:30 < oliv3r> what mapsize should we use and why
03:30 <@chirho> that said, we do have *two* bots in here ...
03:30 < oliv3r> those kinds of desisions
03:31 <@Hellfire667> Assembling the team starting right now would be a good idea. The team should start whenever the FRD is finished.
03:31 <@Metalcore424> Bot42X is currently out of commission
03:31 <@chirho> oliv3r: sounds good
03:31 <+Jpl> btw. document writers can use this to browse ideas http://jpl.yi.org/te/show_one.php?&id=21
03:31 <@Metalcore424> oliv3r, do you know how to get a Q account?
03:31 < oliv3r> Q what
03:31 < oliv3r> Q is an almighty beeing
03:31 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r: /msg Q HELP
03:32 <+Jpl> you can change the "id=21" to number of idea wanted
03:32 < oliv3r> did I mention that I hate quakenet?
03:32 <@Metalcore424> /msg Q hello YourEmailAddress YourEmailAddress
03:32 < oliv3r> more spam
03:32 <@Hellfire667> quakenet doesn't spam.
03:32 <@Hellfire667> (i hope)
03:32 <@Metalcore424> it doesn't
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03:32 < oliv3r> it was a joke : 
03:32 <@chirho> oliv3r: cycle the channel for a moment ...
03:33 < oliv3r> anyhow
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03:33 <@chirho> Hmm...
03:34 <@Metalcore424> he's not authed
03:34 -!- mode/#tempire [+v oliv3r] by ^XP^
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03:34 <@Hellfire667> Are we still in the meeting?
03:34 <@chirho> I wonder why ^XP^ isn't autovoicing ...
03:34 <+Jpl> nothing to me anymore? going to sleep..
03:35 <@Metalcore424> oliv3r, cycle again
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03:35 -!- mode/#tempire [+v oliv3r] by L
03:35 <+oliv3r> boejaka
03:35 <@Metalcore424> there
03:35 <@chirho> so, architecture-specific meetings when necessary in future?
03:35 <@Hellfire667> a little bit louder then: ARE WE STILL IN THE MEETING????
03:35 <@Hellfire667> yes, please. Sounds good to me.
03:36 <+oliv3r> aob: so besides arch team, we need audio team(leader) and grahpics team(leader)
03:36 <+oliv3r> chirho agreed
03:36 <@chirho> so, resolved
03:36 <@Metalcore424> hell, yes
03:36 <@Metalcore424> AFAIK
03:36 <+oliv3r> damnit
03:36 <+oliv3r> chirho and maybe a private topic on the forum for 'slow' discussion
03:36 <@Metalcore424> hell, yes being Hellfire667: yes, not hell yes :P
03:36 <@chirho> I'm not sure what you mean there ...
03:36 <+Jpl> hmm. interested in graphics.
03:37 <+oliv3r> jpl and arathorn team leaders? : )
03:37 <@chirho> "private topic" and "slow discussion"?
03:37 <@Hellfire667> oliv3r: to settle the necessary rights on phpbb, we would have to ask/beg Orudge to be able to do that.
03:37 <+oliv3r> you need to bitchlap users to make their models pretty while using as little as polies as possible
03:37 <@Hellfire667> Which he'll probably refuse to do.
03:38 <+Jpl> hmm... I remember doing a 50 poly diesel locomotive in 10 minutes..
03:38 <+oliv3r> chirho private, architectual users only : ); slow, if one developer has a question he just posts it and others can reply
03:38 <+Jpl> that was fast indeed :P
03:38 <+oliv3r> 50? YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT!!
03:38 <+oliv3r> ; )
03:38 <@Metalcore424> I've done a small-poly truck......small-detail, too, of course
03:38 <@chirho> right, in which case, that would need a separate forum, available to only those members of that access level
03:38 <@Metalcore424> I don't know how many. though
03:38 <@chirho> in short - lots of work
03:38 <@Metalcore424> you can see on the recent post of the graphics topic
03:39 <@Metalcore424> make 3 pages back
03:39 <+oliv3r> so have meetings to argue about desisions; but use forum to just discuss it
03:39 <@Metalcore424> maybe*
03:39 <@chirho> We do have a forum on SF though, if we want to do such things
03:39 <+Jpl> you can really do something with 100-200 polys
03:39 <@chirho> which, as we all know, the masses forget about :)
03:39 <+oliv3r> chirho sounds like a plan : )
03:39 <@Metalcore424> i think the SF forum has 3 posts :P
03:39 <+oliv3r> that way it doesn't even have to be private
03:39 <+oliv3r> cos people who do post there, know what they are talking about
03:39 <@chirho> Exactly - I *should* be able to set one up where only project members can post
03:40 <@Hellfire667> very well then. Using the SF forum it is.
03:40 <+oliv3r> that way we can have our project specific stuff over at SF
03:40 <+oliv3r> and the public stuff on tt-forums
03:40 <@chirho> Anything else?
03:41 <+oliv3r> not from me I don't think
03:41  * chirho hopes to finish before 2am
03:41 <+Jpl> maybe I can get details about my SF account..
03:41 <@chirho> So, summary of resolutions:
03:41 <+oliv3r> let's wrap it up
03:41 <@chirho> * Texinfo for docs
03:41 <@chirho> * Architecture-specific meetings, and some team structure
03:41 <@chirho> Anything else?
03:41 <@chirho> Targets:
03:42 <@chirho> * me to set up SF forum for arch stuff
03:42 <@chirho> (sooner rather than later)
03:42 <@Hellfire667> * eXinion, oliv3r and Hellfire667 to write the FRD
03:42 <+oliv3r> * continuation of SFR
03:42 <+Jpl> * Website desing samples
03:42 <@Metalcore424> SFR?
03:42 <+oliv3r> SFR = FRD
03:43 <+oliv3r> software functional requirements document
03:43 <+oliv3r> sfrd : 
03:43 <+oliv3r> whatever
03:43 <@Hellfire667> !stats
03:43 < GameBot> Stats: http://stats.projectjj.com/
03:43 <@chirho> Anything we missed?
03:44 <@chirho> No?
03:44 <@Metalcore424> NAFAIK
03:44 <+oliv3r> nothing I can think of
03:44 <@Hellfire667> I'll add it if I find something when making the minutes.
03:44 <@chirho> * Hellfire to scribe the log and minutes
03:44 <@chirho> :)
03:44 <@chirho> OK then
03:44 <@chirho> Meeting adjourned 0045 UTC
03:45 <+oliv3r> question round?
03:45 <+oliv3r> : )
03:45 <@chirho> I thought we just had that
03:45 <+oliv3r> j/k
03:45 <+oliv3r> one thing for JPL (and others)
03:45 <+oliv3r> The Blender File Format
03:45 <+oliv3r> The file format Blender uses is a memory dump of the internal structure of the data in Blender. For programmers: saving a Blender file saves the linked list of all objects in a scene.
03:45 < Conditional_Zen> bye
03:45 <+oliv3r> bye zen
03:45 <@chirho> Right - meeting over.  You can all bugger off now :)