[16:33:26] <@Hyronymus> Meeting is in progress
[16:33:33] <@Hyronymus> suddenly
[16:33:55] <@Hyronymus> is everyone awake who feels he/she needs to be awake
[16:34:04] <DominionSpy> I am
[16:34:08] <DominionSpy> just
[16:34:32] <@Hyronymus> ok, now someone tell me you're not the only one
[16:34:47] <Mek> i am still here, but i won't in 10 minutes...
[16:34:50] <DominionSpy> I'm not the only one
[16:35:12] <@Hyronymus> hmm, I'm not so happy with the turn-up ratio
[16:35:16] * eis_os (~oskar@xdsl-87-78-21-109.netcologne.de) has joined #transportempire
[16:35:23] <@Hyronymus> hi eis_os
[16:35:26] <@Hyronymus> just in time
[16:35:36] <@Hyronymus> as you might understand I'm the chairman
[16:35:44] <@Hyronymus> anyone who would like to take minutes?
[16:36:26] <@Hyronymus> right
[16:36:37] * @Hyronymus appoints himself as minuteman
[16:37:14] <@Hyronymus> I insert a new topic to this meeting
[16:37:21] <@Hyronymus> Shall we proceed?
[16:37:27] <DominionSpy> sure
[16:37:36] <Mek> sure
[16:37:46] <@Hyronymus> hmm
[16:37:48] <@Hyronymus> ok
[16:38:02] <@Hyronymus> anyone has comments on the previous minutes?
[16:38:27] <@Hyronymus> DominionSpy
[16:38:28] <@Hyronymus> Mek
[16:38:31] <DominionSpy> nope
[16:38:32] <@Hyronymus> eis_os
[16:38:43] <Mek> nope
[16:38:46] <DominionSpy> do orudge too :p
[16:38:49] <@Hyronymus> orudge
[16:38:56] <DominionSpy> just in case
[16:39:01] <@Hyronymus> and jfs
[16:39:05] <@Hyronymus> he's usually lurking
[16:39:06] <@Hyronymus> ;)
[16:39:13] * eis_os is not active here
[16:39:16] <@Hyronymus> no replies, moving on
[16:39:25] <@Hyronymus> Discussing the past objectives
[16:39:28] <@Hyronymus> 2a. Website - Implement News, Community, Development and Resources (includes DD) sections
[16:39:43] * uzurpator2 (~uzurpator@unregister185207219081.c207.msk.pl) has joined #transportempire
[16:39:45] <@Hyronymus> It's sad to say but noone submitted anything at all
[16:39:52] <@Hyronymus> hi uzurpator2
[16:39:55] <uzurpator2> GReetings
[16:39:56] <@Hyronymus> very welcome
[16:40:03] <@Hyronymus> I was just discussing 2a. Website - Implement News, Community, Development and Resources (includes DD) sections
[16:40:03] <uzurpator2> I'm only for a few minutes :/
[16:40:04] <DominionSpy> is that on transportempire.com?
[16:40:10] <@Hyronymus> yes, DominionSpy
[16:40:21] <DominionSpy> yeah I noticed it was a bit sparse
[16:40:21] <@Hyronymus> currently it's all bogus text to fill the void
[16:40:37] <@Hyronymus> Steve submitted a template php for all to use but noone did
[16:41:03] <@Hyronymus> I understand that Steve wants to prolong this objective and I think we can all agree on that, right
[16:41:09] <DominionSpy> yep
[16:41:14] <uzurpator2> No opinion
[16:41:22] <@Hyronymus> Mek
[16:41:30] <Mek> i agree
[16:41:33] <@Hyronymus> ok
[16:41:36] <@Hyronymus> moving on then
[16:41:38] <@Hyronymus> 2b. Website - Wiki trouble
[16:42:09] <DominionSpy> has there been more tests?
[16:42:15] <@Hyronymus> no
[16:42:26] <@Hyronymus> Pjaytycy appearently had no time
[16:42:39] <DominionSpy> ok
[16:42:42] <@Hyronymus> but I would like to come back to this topic in AOB
[16:43:03] <@Hyronymus> I hope noone minds too much
[16:43:08] <DominionSpy> is this so that we can transfer the info to the main website?
[16:43:14] <@Hyronymus> yes, DominionSpy
[16:43:19] <DominionSpy> right, got it
[16:43:29] <@Hyronymus> there are actually quite some valuable resources on the Wiki currently
[16:43:40] <@Hyronymus> we decdied to ditch the Wiki though
[16:43:53] <DominionSpy> that's the only resource I haven't looked at yet
[16:44:02] <@Hyronymus> If you're interested I can inform you more after the meeting, DominionSpy
[16:44:11] <DominionSpy> sure, thanks
[16:44:15] <@Hyronymus> ok, np
[16:44:21] <@Hyronymus> moving on then
[16:44:23] <@Hyronymus> 2c. Design Document - Commenting Part 2
[16:44:37] <DominionSpy> I have a couple
[16:44:42] <@Hyronymus> go ahead
[16:44:47] <DominionSpy> section 4.1
[16:44:51] <uzurpator2> I ve got approx 7 minutes - so hurry up :/
[16:44:56] <@Hyronymus> lol
[16:45:02] <DominionSpy> should we have invisible goods? needs visual feedback for loading, even if it is hidden for the journey
[16:45:31] * Purno (~Purno@5351CFA0.cable.casema.nl) has joined #transportempire
[16:45:34] <uzurpator2> where should they be visible?
[16:45:36] <uzurpator2> station?
[16:45:40] <@Hyronymus> hi Purno
[16:45:40] <uzurpator2> loading stage?
[16:45:44] <DominionSpy> station and loading
[16:45:55] <Purno> !sorry for lateness~
[16:46:00] <DominionSpy> or at least the loading stage
[16:46:02] <@Hyronymus> that's fine
[16:46:28] <DominionSpy> and section 5.8
[16:46:35] <@Hyronymus> what about it
[16:46:48] <DominionSpy> (CAs)
[16:46:56] <Purno> what's CAs?
[16:47:04] <DominionSpy> city autorities
[16:47:11] <DominionSpy> Not sure about advertising campaigns - was one of the things I didn't like about RCT
[16:47:17] <DominionSpy> authorities*
[16:47:18] <Purno> I liked them
[16:47:44] <Purno> but i've the feeling they didn't bring in much money at TTD
[16:47:49] <@Hyronymus> it was something the majoirty liked, but in the end it might turn out to be a gameplay option
[16:47:55] <DominionSpy> for me, it's just one more thing to distract from creating and maintaining the transport network
[16:47:58] <uzurpator2> indeed
[16:48:04] <uzurpator2> indeed 2
[16:48:07] <@Hyronymus> lol
[16:48:11] <uzurpator2> but ppl want it - so ppl will get it
[16:48:15] <DominionSpy> fair enough
[16:48:19] <Purno> but it wouldn't hurt to include them, would it?
[16:48:26] <@Hyronymus> not everything will be so hard-coded though, uzurpator2
[16:48:28] <uzurpator2> its not like its going to require major engine rework :P
[16:48:37] <DominionSpy> as long as it's an option to include in a game
[16:48:38] <uzurpator2> obviously
[16:48:46] <@Hyronymus> if it turns out to interfere with gameplay it should be re-assesed
[16:49:02] <@Hyronymus> was there more, DominionSpy?
[16:49:03] <uzurpator2> 3 minutes remaining
[16:49:04] <DominionSpy> okay, that's all the comments I came up with
[16:49:11] <@Hyronymus> nice timing :)
[16:49:23] <@Hyronymus> I undestood you already found the other comments, uzurpator2
[16:49:37] <uzurpator2> which comments?
[16:49:40] <@Hyronymus> now Steve and I still need to arrange a meetin with you
[16:49:58] <@Hyronymus> the ones pjaytycy, steve and I made for part 2
[16:50:03] <@Hyronymus> in the commentin thread
[16:50:07] <uzurpator2> yes - i did
[16:50:11] <uzurpator2> and commented even...
[16:50:11] <@Hyronymus> ok
[16:50:17] <@Hyronymus> I recall that
[16:50:32] <@Hyronymus> did you have any comments on the DD, Purno
[16:50:38] <Purno> no
[16:50:44] <@Hyronymus> Mek
[16:51:08] <Mek> not really, but i've got to go now, see you all alter
[16:51:17] <DominionSpy> bye
[16:51:21] <Purno> c'ya
[16:51:25] <uzurpator2> bye
[16:51:29] <@Hyronymus> ok
[16:51:41] <@Hyronymus> then I can safely move on I think
[16:51:49] <@Hyronymus> 2d. Coding - Evaluate and accept the coding standard
[16:52:03] <@Hyronymus> there doesn't seem to be much will to evaluate it
[16:52:06] <DominionSpy> I have some thing to say about that
[16:52:10] <@Hyronymus> DominionSpy
[16:52:11] <uzurpator2> this should be left to the coders - once we get our own forum :)
[16:52:25] <DominionSpy> yeah?
[16:52:33] <@Hyronymus> speak :)
[16:52:36] <DominionSpy> ok
[16:52:38] <DominionSpy> interfaces should have a prefixed I, classes could have prefix C
[16:52:38] <DominionSpy> this stops confusion between class names and method names
[16:53:05] <@Hyronymus> ok
[16:53:13] <DominionSpy> m and g prefixes for attributes should be followed by an underscore
[16:53:13] <DominionSpy> this helps clarity
[16:53:23] * Grunt (sjm11@login3.srv.ualberta.ca) has joined #transportempire
[16:53:27] <DominionSpy> eg m_sAttribute
[16:53:29] <@Hyronymus> hi Grunt
[16:53:51] <DominionSpy> that's all
[16:53:57] <@Hyronymus> ok, thx
[16:54:13] <@Hyronymus> I agree with uzurpator2's suggestion for a seperate forum btw
[16:54:13] <DominionSpy> I think it's a very good guide apart from that
[16:54:31] <Grunt> as I just told Hyr, I'm not going to be paying very much attention - sitting in a classroom at the moment. o_O
[16:54:32] <@Hyronymus> and I also think it's essentially up to the coders to accept the code
[16:54:44] <DominionSpy> okay
[16:55:02] <@Hyronymus> but it would be nice to have a coding standard before any code is being written
[16:55:07] <@Hyronymus> imho it saves trouble later
[16:55:12] <DominionSpy> indeed
[16:55:19] <Purno> will there be a discussion about the coding forum later on the meeting?
[16:55:21] <uzurpator2> tr00 tr00
[16:55:26] <@Hyronymus> yes, Purno
[16:55:34] <@Hyronymus> there will be now
[16:55:35] <@Hyronymus> ;)
[16:55:47] <@Hyronymus> is there more to say about the codingstandard>
[16:56:14] <@Hyronymus> that's a no
[16:56:15] <DominionSpy> I don't have any more
[16:56:21] <@Hyronymus> moving on ;)
[16:56:23] <@Hyronymus> 2e. Coding - Select leader (might turn into a vote)
[16:56:33] <uzurpator2> Ok - my time's up. I'll be here at 16:00 GMT if anyone wants to speak to me
[16:56:36] <@Hyronymus> well, I received a grand total of 3 votes
[16:56:38] * Grunt gestures to uzurpator or DominionSpy.
[16:56:48] <@Hyronymus> 2 votes for uzurpator2
[16:56:51] <@Hyronymus> 1 abstain
[16:57:03] <@Hyronymus> that means we are 2 votes short
[16:57:17] <@Hyronymus> 1 now Grunt voted DominionSpy or uzurpator2
[16:57:33] <@Hyronymus> I honestly think uzurpator2 feared being elected
[16:57:53] * eis_os (~oskar@xdsl-87-78-21-109.netcologne.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[16:58:06] <uzurpator2> not really :P
[16:58:16] <@Hyronymus> do you want to, uzurpator2
[16:58:26] <@Hyronymus> or do you reject your nomination?
[16:58:26] * Grunt nods
[16:58:26] <Grunt> even with that last vote the result is not going to change...
[16:59:05] <@Hyronymus> no, it won't change
[16:59:18] <@Hyronymus> it's still a majority in favour :p
[16:59:19] <DominionSpy> if the person elected doesn't want to do it, we must respect their wishes
[16:59:28] <@Hyronymus> indeed, and we will
[16:59:47] <@Hyronymus> until uzurpator2 has specificly told us he refuses he will be the leader
[16:59:55] <@Hyronymus> +though
[17:00:12] <@Hyronymus> moving on?
[17:00:17] <DominionSpy> yup
[17:00:24] <@Hyronymus> 3. New Project Objectives
[17:00:30] <@Hyronymus> the toughest part
[17:00:38] <@Hyronymus> 3a. Coding - Design Document - Commenting Part 3
[17:00:59] <@Hyronymus> the Design Document still needs commenting on chapters 7-14
[17:01:16] * DaleStan (~Dale@DaleStan.users.quakenet.org) has joined #transportempire
[17:01:19] <@Hyronymus> I suggest we nicely divide the burden to chapters 7-10 for next meeting
[17:01:27] * Grunt agrees
[17:01:31] * DominionSpy too
[17:01:49] <@Hyronymus> that keeps some sort of pace
[17:02:01] <@Hyronymus> a topic will be created after the meeting
[17:02:35] <@Hyronymus> 3b. Finish unfinished, previous objectives (to be determined at meeting)
[17:02:43] <@Hyronymus> this is my personal touch ;)
[17:02:55] <DominionSpy> ah
[17:02:58] <@Hyronymus> and it comes with a explanation
[17:03:15] <@Hyronymus> Steve and I coined quite some objectives over the past weeks
[17:03:33] <@Hyronymus> not all have been finished though, which makes me a bit disappointed
[17:03:56] <@Hyronymus> my disappointment mostly stems from the mismatch between intentions and actions
[17:04:11] <@Hyronymus> during meetings almost all objectives are accepted without a change
[17:04:28] <@Hyronymus> after the meetings hardly any objective is realised as agreed upon though
[17:04:48] <Purno> well, if people don't feel like doing it, they shouldn't do it IMO
[17:04:59] <@Hyronymus> in that light I think it's most sensible to not add new objectives for a while
[17:05:16] <DominionSpy> just keep with the old ones?
[17:05:21] <@Hyronymus> instead, we should really try to finish the unfinished objectives
[17:05:25] <@Hyronymus> yes, DominionSpy
[17:05:28] <@Hyronymus> and no Purno
[17:05:43] <@Hyronymus> if people don't want to they shouldn't say they want to
[17:05:50] <Purno> agreed
[17:05:52] <@Hyronymus> that's the issue here
[17:06:09] <Purno> but still, I can expect to do something in a week, but discover I didn't feel like doing it
[17:06:18] <Purno> +afterwards
[17:06:29] <@Hyronymus> yes, and that's another thing to talk about
[17:06:50] <@Hyronymus> I would appreciate more feedback from developers/members
[17:07:14] <@Hyronymus> for Steve and me it's not easy to see why an objective isn't finished in time
[17:07:42] <@Hyronymus> if we get feedback from those assigned to an objective it's easier and less disappointing to adjust the objective
[17:07:44] <Purno> I agree that whenever we discover not feeling like doing something, we should tell Steve/Hyr
[17:08:11] <@Hyronymus> a simple post in the proper topic would be very beneficial
[17:08:33] <Purno> Although I remember I had planned to send someone a simple e-mail, but I still haven't done it...
[17:08:35] <@Hyronymus> that's about all of my personal touch
[17:08:44] <@Hyronymus> did I upset anyone?
[17:08:51] <Purno> not me anyways
[17:09:20] <@Hyronymus> DominionSpy, did I upset you or scare you off already?
[17:09:22] * Grunt shakes his head
[17:09:23] <DominionSpy> it doesn't concern me yet
[17:09:30] <@Hyronymus> ok
[17:09:34] * Grunt is not upset or scared, even.
[17:09:35] <@Hyronymus> yet *g*
[17:09:39] <DominionSpy> :)
[17:09:51] <Purno> did I have any objectives, btw?
[17:10:06] <@Hyronymus> you can check it yourself, Purno
[17:10:14] <@Hyronymus> ;)
[17:10:27] <Purno> wether I'm noted as member in one of the [obj] topics?
[17:10:47] <@Hyronymus> now, I understood Steve wanted a new objective for the coding group depsite what I just said
[17:10:56] <DominionSpy> phew
[17:10:57] <Purno> !
[17:11:06] <@Hyronymus> and I know uzurpator2 spoke about forming a crash team
[17:11:07] <Purno> I'd like an answer
[17:11:23] <@Hyronymus> hang on Purno
[17:11:41] <Purno> does me being a member of an [obj] topic, make me having an objective?
[17:11:59] <Purno> noted as member*
[17:12:00] <@Hyronymus> so I think it makes sense to ask uzurpator2 to form a crash team to start work on the engine (as he wrote)
[17:12:08] <@Hyronymus> yes, Purno
[17:12:18] <DominionSpy> yes
[17:12:27] <@Hyronymus> and if you disagree you should read the minutes
[17:12:45] <@Hyronymus> perhaps Steve and I made a mistake
[17:13:07] <@Hyronymus> moving on
[17:13:09] <@Hyronymus> 4. Any other business
[17:13:37] <@Hyronymus> Purno, you wanted to discuss the creation of a TE-coders section
[17:13:46] <Purno> yes
[17:13:58] <@Hyronymus> be my guest
[17:14:03] <Purno> apperantly the coders want a forum in which non-coders cannot or may not post, that's correct isn't it?
[17:14:18] <@Hyronymus> why not?
[17:14:50] <Purno> I wouldn't see a reason to lock the rest out, but anyways, whenever we can't / may not post it in, I'd suggest to hide it
[17:14:51] <@Hyronymus> the initial idea was to allow coders, artists and management to have meetings for their members only too
[17:15:33] <@Hyronymus> the latter happens btw, steve and I dicsuss stuff in a private channel regularly
[17:15:55] <Purno> that's what I said, hide it ;)
[17:15:56] <@Hyronymus> I think providing a 'dedicated' section fits in
[17:16:13] <@Hyronymus> if I understand it well, you will not be able to see it
[17:16:17] <DominionSpy> there was talk of hiding the forum
[17:16:33] <@Hyronymus> you can't see sections that you have no permission to
[17:16:44] <@Hyronymus> like non-admins can't see the Private Area
[17:16:54] <Purno> then why not hide the Development forum for the public?
[17:17:04] <@Hyronymus> good point
[17:17:08] <DominionSpy> I think there has to be a strict policy for what gets posted in that section
[17:17:17] <@Hyronymus> I'll discuss it with orudge, Purno
[17:17:22] <Purno> ok
[17:17:31] <@Hyronymus> and I agree with your point, DominionSpy
[17:17:37] <@Hyronymus> but don't worry
[17:17:45] <@Hyronymus> being strict is my hobby
[17:17:46] <@Hyronymus> ;)
[17:17:50] <DominionSpy> heh
[17:18:04] <Purno> having a strict leader is not really my hobby ;)
[17:18:13] <@Hyronymus> too bad :p
[17:18:18] <Purno> yeah I guess so
[17:18:21] <Purno> :P
[17:18:29] <@Hyronymus> was this all you wanted to discuss, Purno
[17:18:36] <Purno> currently, yes
[17:18:39] <@Hyronymus> ok
[17:18:51] <@Hyronymus> anyone else had something to add to AOB
[17:19:24] <@Hyronymus> I said I had when discussing the Wiki-trouble
[17:19:34] <@Hyronymus> but I was able to fit it in earlier
[17:19:40] <@Hyronymus> so it's all said already :p
[17:19:41] <DominionSpy> ok
[17:19:59] <DominionSpy> was that the 'personal' touch?
[17:20:04] <@Hyronymus> yes
[17:20:12] <@Hyronymus> oh, perhaps a small service message for you, DominionSpy
[17:20:27] <@Hyronymus> normally we use TinFoil and a set of Meeting Rules
[17:20:39] <@Hyronymus> the Meeting Rules are around on the Wiki-site
[17:20:52] <@Hyronymus> I decided to not use them now because of the low turn-up
[17:21:04] <Purno> the !, ~, -> and <- thingies
[17:21:08] <@Hyronymus> indeed
[17:21:18] <@Hyronymus> I'll send you the link after the meeting
[17:21:38] <@Hyronymus> it's pretty strict but it helps when a crowd is active
[17:21:42] * The_Master (~chatzilla@host165-240.pool870.interbusiness.it) has joined #transportempire
[17:21:46] <Purno> agreed
[17:21:46] <@Hyronymus> keeps order pretty nicely
[17:21:52] <Purno> agreed again
[17:22:05] <@Hyronymus> that's really all in AOB then
[17:22:15] * @Hyronymus moves to the last topic
[17:22:24] <@Hyronymus> 5. Next meeting
[17:22:36] <Purno> preferably fridays, saturdays or sundays
[17:22:42] <@Hyronymus> we usually stick to 2 weeks between meetings
[17:23:18] <@Hyronymus> shall I just suggest 07-10-2005 @ 1430 GMT
[17:23:29] <Purno> what kind of day is that?
[17:23:31] <DominionSpy> is that the best time for everyone?
[17:23:40] <Purno> depends on the day
[17:23:41] <@Hyronymus> I'm not sure
[17:23:48] <@Hyronymus> it's a friday, Purno
[17:23:52] <Purno> will be fine for me
[17:23:56] <DominionSpy> me too
[17:23:58] <Purno> most probably
[17:24:01] <Purno> not sure
[17:24:02] <@Hyronymus> sometimes we change times, DominionSpy
[17:24:11] <@Hyronymus> so be carefull to check the topic
[17:24:21] <DominionSpy> I'm just worried about a repeat of today
[17:24:27] <Purno> and sometimes Hyr writes down another time then he wanted to write, ;)
[17:25:23] <@Hyronymus> yeah, too
[17:25:36] <@Hyronymus> you mean the turn-up, DominionSpy
[17:25:40] <DominionSpy> yes
[17:25:46] <@Hyronymus> that's an issue, I agree
[17:26:04] <@Hyronymus> I would like to have more and moe timely feedback on that too
[17:26:13] <@Hyronymus> *more
[17:26:20] <DominionSpy> if I were not able to make it, I would give my apologies, but as I see it some have not
[17:26:39] <@Hyronymus> indeed
[17:26:47] <Purno> problem is that plans can suddenly appear, school for example
[17:26:54] <@Hyronymus> I'll create a general topic about it I think
[17:27:03] <@Hyronymus> I agree, Purno
[17:27:11] <@Hyronymus> but posting/mailing takes 1 minute
[17:27:13] <@Hyronymus> :p
[17:27:19] <Purno> íf I get behind a pc
[17:27:26] <@Hyronymus> force it
[17:27:31] <@Hyronymus> anyhow...
[17:27:36] <@Hyronymus> End of Meeting