=== A Meeting is beginning in this channel === === Remember to follow all meeting rules === good seems to work :) What? You thought it wouldn't work? Pfft. == 1. Start meeting == I did == 1a. Pick a chairman and a minutes man == well, Steve^ and I did that too who ? * * * Hyronymus is chairman for today and Steve^ will make minutes I hope noone opposes == 1b. Discuss minutes of previous meeting == did everyone read my belated minutes?~ I did ~ !I did ! Yeseth. was there anything to comment, besides the fact they were late~ no ~ !no, fine with me use the ~ too, Purno~ moving on.. == 2. Discuss the previous objectives == == 2a. Website - Create Template == ! You don't need them on !s because they are 1 liners don't undermine my powers, Steve^ ;)~ !I"m confused now (~) -> great wrong command I suppose anyhow: don't use ! too often, Purno Steve^~ You may see my contribution to the template here: http://www.phoenixscripts.co.uk/tempire/steve/home.php Click the links in the main bit to change between green and blue styles. Which do you prefer? I like green, but Hyronymus likes blue. ~ -> I would like to say that today we should decide what colour we want~ -> ! blue Purno ! definitely green... ~ I like both blue and green one. Buf the green one doens't look good with the Transrapid image with a blue background, and the blue one doesn't look good with the green tiles thingie. And since we are making a green logo it seems (the traffic sign), i think green would fit best.~ -> Steve^~ -> I agree that the background doesn't always fit the picture, but i'm not sure what we can do about that -> The idea of the top left images is that they will show the latest progress of transport empire and it'll be kinda cool -> And the green image is supposed to replace the header on the right, i believe and even then, not on this exact layout ~ pjaytycy It's good everybody agrees on this template, it looks nice, and the colour should be blue! It goes along well with all the images I think ~ hmm... that template looks good. ~ Purno * * * uzurpator2 is back If we ever plan to make another colored logo, we should fit them to the website colors, of course, IMO~ my turn -> I still wonder where the logo should have to come, Steve^ said on the right but then our lovely quotes would be lost~ Purno ! Refresh to get a new quote and pic on the left ~ TBH I think the blue one looks better, but since it looks we're going to get a green logo, I choosed the green one~ -> -> I never ever looked at the image colours tbh and I don't think it should matter that much the majoirty votes for blue~ Steve^ -> Really? /me counts But it's easy to have multiple styles for the website and let the user choose !even 1 vote more creates a majoirty ;)~ The blue and green are only 3 lines of CSS, deciding on the colours on the page -> And changes in the logo may only change the header slightly So i'm for letting the user choose. If The Master gets a design for his logo, i can add that to the list ~ To the list = to the images on the left? Steve^ ^^^^^^ no, the list that the user chooses a style from. ok, Purno hmm, I am inclined to go to pjaytycy in 20 secs, Purno~ pjaytycy, your turn~ The logo would be in front of a black background anyway, so it's not that important. And The Master can certainly make his logo blue if needed too. (Most traffic signs over here are blue anyway) ~ -> good point, pjaytycy Purno If we vote for the blue template, I'd strongly suggest also make a blue logo, which isn't that hard with a traffic sign, just take a german one for example. This just looks better IMO.~ -> ok Steve^ And we don't need to limit ourselves to a traffic sign, remember. well, that is true to some extent I'd prefer a logo that didn't make any sense, if it fit the website better ~ it is our logo if we accept it how do we like TheMaster's logo?~ -> pjaytycy it's the best we have currently -> Steve^ but I hope a better one comes up eventually ~ ~~~~~ -> -> It looks a little plain to me. ~ !sorry~ Purno * * * Steve^ shakes his head in dissaproval The arrows don't look like the real thing, but it seems i'm the only one who thinks that needs to be fixed~ yep Mek :D -> what actually is "TheMaster's logo"? ~ ! http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=20119&start=20 it is the logo for TE Steve^ !where can i see it?~ ! the link ;) ! follow Purno's link I agree with purno. So he doesn't feel lonely ~ ok, time to summarise I thin k if we allow the user to choose the colour scheme, do we all agree with the current template?~ -> Purno No other templates have come to discussion yet~ -> were there?~ ! yes I honestly thought they are all variations on the basic template~ !http://www.tt-forums.net//files/te-v1.1_212.png doesn't look like a variation on the same template ~ true, but that was disapproved *that one~ -> ->>>>>>>>>>>> Purno * * * Steve^ fires Hyronymus Why was it disapproved? and shouldn't we decide to dissaprove it during the meeting, not before the meeting?~ -> ok Steve^ and then uzurpator2 Well, is there anything wrong with the current template? Zuu designed it and I've upgraded it. I thought The Master's design didn't look as nice as this one ~ uzurpator2~ -> You spend way too much time on petty details...~ probably Purno I think if you change the colors of TheMaster's template, and perhaps use some more space between the different elemants, it will look better. I'd also like to have a link to the "current template"~ Well sorry but in line with uzurpator2 I think we're spending too much time on this now -> !than a vote perhaps, so we can close this topic?~ there have been 2 weeks of discussion space and suddenly new things are brought to the meeting the purpose of the topics Steve^ and I make is to discuss enough so that the meetings can be decission-oriented -> I honestly had the idea that during the past 2 weeks The Master's design was disapproved and Steve^'s recolouring of Zuu's template was approved Purno Use whichever logo, you can always change it once we have an actual working beta. Which is 1 year from now anyways...~ Give me some time to get used to the system, I'm sorry if I don't udnerstand it correclty and 'mess up' things~ I'm not going to put the blame on anyone,that's too easy~ who prefers Zuu's modified template as our webpage~ just a short yes/no~ yeseth! idgaf ! link please~ ... ! Steve / Zuu's template ! if it's the same thing, then the first one we discussed is fine with me~ just yes/no,link:http://www.phoenixscripts.co.uk/tempire/steve/home.php ! Aye. ~ * * * uzurpator2 says IDGAF ! yes ok Steve/Zuu's template is chosen == 2b. Website - Graphics == well, we covered that one well I think ! We just discussed that too really. Move on. ~ == 2c. Wiki - Re-organize == the fun part I posted a mayday for help but noone helped I found pages were locked and uneditible, although I have sysop -> until I know how to unlock nothing seems to go Steve^ Shall we leave this to section 3? ~ fine with me noone screams == 2d. Coding - SDL Demos == pjaytycy, you have anything to mention? not really ~ cool :)~ -> I believe there were some questions about the demos though Steve^ Cool? So noone did anything? :( ~ My student job took a lot more time than I expected. Sorry about that ~ noone enrolled for this objective -> that means it has to be retained Grunt_ Do we even stil have a lot of the coders around that wrote the demons in the first place? It might be that they've all disappeared, which would explain why nobody wants to dig up the demos. ~ -> let me say that that is an objective for the next meeting too uzurpator2 I wrote the terrain proto, but honestly - even that will have to be written from scratch -> so as a coder I say - drop the demos~ Grunt_ Agreed - the demos more seem to be proofs-of-concept than actual code intended to be used in the final project and should be dropped. ~ -> -> pjaytycy The idea was only to set up an SDL environment that could run all sdl demo's some kind of standard to set, so we would all be able to compile each others creations -> optimist...~ but, as uzurpator is the only active SDL coder left, I guess using his environment would be the best~ -> <- uzurpator2, anything more to say? ! I'm still here! :) ~ nope~ !sorry grunt ~ well, what's a wise decision in this matter uzurpator2, how likely is it that the first real TE release will use the same environment as the SDL demos -> none Do we not still need those concepts to be proved? ~ -> sorry Grunt_, uzurpator2 first <- as a matter of fact I was thinking about developing the game around DirectX ->->->->-> * * * Steve^ laughs considering that next windows will have botched OGL support ! rumor. and DX is the factual industry standard ~ Grunt_ We're designing a cross-platform game here. Tying support to one platform is completely unacceptable. ~ besides that, we voted for SDL -> we can't keep moving from vote to vote uzurpator2 I know - that is why I hope to get the renderer as a seperate entity, so teh game will use DX and SDL at the same time ~ -> Grunt_ I trust that would mean there would be an OpenGL rendering engine written for the game, as well. ~ -> ! Or an SDL-native rendering engine, I suppose. ~ uzurpator2, does it have to do with the SDL demos if it doesn't I would like to finish that first ~ OpenGL and SDL are two distinctively different things~ nothing - just drop them~ next issue!~ -> Steve^ I would say we should move this completely new discussion to the forums. Rather than tie up these objectives -> ~ I agree Grunt_ Can we agree that the demos should be dropped and move on, then? ~ not yet, that will be decided on the forums too ! Very well - we should move along, then. ~ It seems i'm the new chairman All this stuff needs to be discussed on the forums for the next meeting And for now we'll move on == 2e. Design Document - Progress Report == uzurpator2? umm - it was written as well as I could I await questions ~ We have a new objective section, that we'll explain when we get to it That will deal with comments regarding to problems in the DD or suggestions etc -> are you ok with the current arrangement, with you writing the DD, uzurpator2? sure since I'm the sole coder anyways :P ~ ! You keep forgetting about me... :P ~ I hope not :P, pjaytycy ! i'm also a coder... ~ * * * Steve^ gives Grunt_ a cookie * * * Steve^ gives mek one too Why did we need to wait for giving comments ? ~ So we can organize them properly. * * * uzurpator2 is away for a moment If 10 people all send in random comments.. it'll take a job to deal with them -> We're seperating it out a bit and me and Hyronymus will organize them before talking to uzurpator2 pjaytycy? So, how exactly do you "see" these comments work then ? Sepearate threads for each one? A thread for each section ? 1 general thread ? Through PM's ? ... ~ Well this will be explained in the objective to come later in the meeting * * * uzurpator2 is back Anything else to add? ~ Good.. moving on == 3. Website and Wiki Discussion == !done During the week Hyronymus was trying to sort out the wiki and had problems THis is raising some issues with our current arrangement The wiki on sourceforge is slow, and it's hard to maintain due to restrctions -> We ask, do we need it? Grunt_ Was about to ask the same question, actually. I don't think we need it. ~ -> Mek the wiki isn't slow, it's sourceforge that is slow ~ Either way. It's slow :P Wikis are generally slow And i agree, sourceforge adds to the problem -> Do we need it though? pjaytycy Chris would say we do need it, I don't think anybody else really cares ( if the main site is updated frequently enough) ~ We have already decided to build a purpose built system for displaying the design document So the only thing the wiki would be used for.. is.. nothing? Perhaps at a later date when we have source code and people modifying it But now, we see no reason to keep it. All agreed? -> !yes~ ! Agree. ~ pjaytycy We can keep it in it's current state, no need to actually delete it~ But remove the links Actually, i know of one use for it :P -> Grunt_ We can move that to a subsection of the website, though. ~ ->! oh, of course. uzurpator2 Sorry guys, but I need to go :/ :( Thanks for coming! back I'll be around 18:00 (16:00 gmt) if you care to wait that long ~ unlikely :P I'll keep the IRC active to read the log thou :) bye for now bye uzurpator2 ~ Hyronymus wants to be chair again. I'll let him as i'm a nice person ty == 4. New Project Objectives == nono no? ~ We haven't spoken about sourceforge hosting the website too oh, ok my mistake :P can anyone tell us what the benefit of SF hosting it is -> pjaytycy cvs -> and other things that are installed for you~ !concurrent version system Grunt_ -> SF is not the only provider of CVS services out there. I also don't believe it's that difficult to set up a CVS server. ~ Steve^ I removed alot of things from sourceforge that they set up. Such as a bug tracker, forums, suggestion stuff. We don't need it. ~ -> Grunt_ Why are we still on SF, then, besides not having found an alternative yet? ~ only because the alternative -> Steve^, what if we go looking for an alternative Steve^ I can host it is necessary. I could give it a domain too. I can't give out access much as my account doesn't include the security orudge may be able to offer something Have we actually asked? ~ not that I know Hello I can Oops, sorry ~ that's ok -> noone else was talking orudge Right, yes, I can offer hosting (and also, for those like Steve^ who say it's unreliable, The New Zernebok Empire will be getting a lot more reliable as of a few weeks time) Basically, whatever TE needs, I shall be able to provide ~ -> * * * Steve^ prefers to consider the present, not the future possibilities -> <- orudge? Just noticed above, talking about CVS... considered SVN (Subversion)? It's really much better. I can host subversion on Zernebok, too. -> Also, Zernebok at present is quite reliable, following the HD replacement and should be perfectly fine until the new servers (plural) are installed ~ Bagsy a place on the server that TT-Forums aren't on :P Grunt_? Have worked with SVN before and would probably use it over CVS. We'd need to discuss that with the rest of the coders, though (especially uzurpator). ~ what's FTP access like with orudge hosting? -> go. You can set up as many FTP accounts as you like. I run cPanel on my server, so it's basically the same as your surpass hosting but you'll have your own user account for TE stuff and I can set up multiple if desired/needed (ie, for security, etc) ~ Ok, i think that's our best shot I'll make a post on the forums to check stuff over Lets move on == 4a. User Interface - Collection of ideas == We're into the new objective section As before, we will allow a discussion on all these new objectives and then they'll be posted on the forums where they can be discussed And worked on of course First up relates to the User Interface Last meeting we decided to create an objective, so here it is! -> We should collect ideas about the user interface and what it needs This includes the sections of windows, window contents, icons on the screen and general themes I think some of this may be covered in the DD, that'll need to be checked pjaytycy? how can we do this when we are still discussing the DD (ie: still discussing what game we are making exactly) as an example: in the DD there are 3 possibillities for train schedules, each option would need different windows etc The DD does exist, at least part of it and we know the general fact s !sorry. it just seems strange to me to do this now, but we can try ~ We can be general about it Umm, examples.. General layout of the screen? Icons, boxes for time and date, that kind of thing Perhaps we are a step ahead of what we should be, but it was called for last meeting Any further comments? !so let's try it, and see if it works or if it is problematic ok Lets move on for now.. or do i talk too fast? -> Grunt_ We don't seem to have anything to discuss right now - a thread on the boards might be more appropriate for a holding ground for ideas in this respect. ~ Agreed Lets move on == 4b. Website - Complete Template == This links to what we discussed above -> We need to complete the basic template with graphics that were made and general website template stuff. pjaytycy? does this cover designing the other pages too (ie: not only the news section) ? ~ Yes, i suppose it does. The idea is to design the pages as we go along anyway. And we will be making other pages in another objective I'll make a note to make a permanent objective for that purpose I'll move on == 4c. Website - Code major parts == Whilst the artistic make the template, other parts of the website can be made We have highlighted 3 major areas that can be coded. It should be noted that a full admin system is not required for any of these, you need not even try and link them to the template. Just make the system and we'll link them later. The actual admin system will come as a later objective too 1) A news system to allow the project leaders to post meeting dates and other useful news posts 2) A system for storing the minutes and logs of the meetings. This could actually be more about showing them, we can FTP them for now if necessary 3) A prototype layout of how the Design Document will be displayed on the website -> pjaytycy? Which language (ie: serverside) do you want these thing in ? php ? php. -> pjaytycy Also connected: how do we have database acces ? ~ MySQL i would guess I'm fairly sure orudge can provide that if we move to his hosting anyway -> orudge MySQL 4.1, PHP 4.4.0, Perl something point something, Python, you name it, you can probably get it on my hosting. Except ASP. ~ ANy other comments? THen i shall move on == 4d. Coding Group - Sort it out == During this meeting Grunt_ was forgotten as a coder so was Mek We need to deal with the coding group. Someone should take charge and find out who can code for the project -> This is very very important. Grunt_ -> uzurpator appears to be the most likely candidate for that at the moment. ~ -> He is working on the DD though -> orudge I don't have time to actively code for the project, but I've always said I'll help where I can (eg, sound/music areas of the project), and that will probably still be the case, if we ever get to that point ~ pjaytycy I can deal with logic etc, but have no SDL experience. I do have experience with Level-Of-Detail issues in general for 3D engines. ~ Grunt_ Work on the DD's not going to last forever, and that'll need to be done before coding commences. ~ Well, you have time to elect a leader, there is no need to force anyone We just need to find out who exists I'm a programmer myself, but i have no C++ experience. Hopefully that'll change -> Grunt_ I don't think that that's as important right now if we don't have any actual coding we can work on at the moment. ~ ! Move on, we'll do this on the forum. aye == 4e. Design Document - Commenting Part 1 == ! Aye. ~ As Purno commented, this is Part 1 COvering the first 3 sections of the Design Document People should read, understand and think about the first 3 sections of the design document. They are labelled 1, 2 and 3 -> <- They should then post their comments in what ever file format in the relevant thread Hyronymus and myself will then gather and sort the comments Removing the rubbish ones, and exploring the proper suggestions !dinner, bbl We will then meet with uzurpator2 and we will discuss changes to the Design Document Due to the large number of people talking at once, this won't be done during public meetings But everything that happens will of course be made public, so people can whine I hope Uzurpator will give comments on our questions/suggestions on the forums too ~ Comments? well, like, if we say: "hey, we decided that or that differently in a vote" , he can say why he included something else ~ If anything big like that comes out We'll talk publically Otherwise we're trying to make it as simple and straightforward as possible so it gets done any other comments? ! no == 5. Any other business (AOB) == AOB? -> pjaytycy Any word from Hellfire ? Not to my knowledge It would be nice to know why he left us after volunteering to write the DD. ~ I agree. AOAOB? summary of this meeting ? the minutes will summarize it ok I'll post them by tomorrow at least I find it'd harder to write them whilst i'm chairing :P -> next meeting date ? If that is that, we'll move on == 6. Next meeting == in around 2 weeks What day is good? every day but friday / satuday evenings. ~ also daytime might be difficult since school is starting again in most places. ~ Tuesday the 6th? Ah yes.. school Hmm, i'm not sure when people start school in other countries I'm starting October myself -> Grunt_? just for the record : I start in two weeks. ~ on monday? Propose Tuesday the 6th on the forums and hear about the comments. ~ -> Grunt_? Agree with pjaytycy, though I personally won't be able to make it that day ~ Choose an other date then ! I have no real date two weeks hence that will work :) ~ so, meeting closed ? k === End of Meeting === === Meeting rules no longer apply ===