=== A Meeting is beginning in this channel === === Remember to follow all meeting rules === * * * DaleStan is awake 1. Start meeting 1a. Pick a chairman and a minutes man I'm here I am the chair. ~ Who wants to the minutes man? @ Or woman. ~ (brbr with water) I will make the minutes~ Goodie! 1b. Discuss minutes of previous meeting I hope everyone read my great minutes ~ Back !yep~ As you can tell, last meeting was a disaster, as noone turned up But the one before that, those minutes should be read too * * * Steve^ finds a link http://www.tt-forums.net//files/tempiremins050716_135.txt For last week http://www.tt-forums.net//files/meeting_minutes_2005-04-17_885.txt for the meeting before that ! I secretly hope everyone did read them as I put a link in the agenda Aye. ~ 2. Elect new management With Chris gone, we need to choose a new leader Any suggestions? ~ -> Hyronymus? ! is TinFoil the boot, or why is he posting when he doesn't have the word?~ Yes, TinFoil is the bot :) ~ Thanx, Steve^. ChrisCF is being caught up with real life which disables him from leading TE, at least for now he hopes to be back someday but not necessarily as a leader -> He would like to have someone with an interest in management to take over~ Metalcore? Where is hellfire? Admittingly, I haven't been reading the forums, though, but he was supposed to be the lead coder, IIRC~ -> Hyronymus. Hellfire only posted in the topic for last week's meeting. I sincerely hoped he or at least uzurpator would be here. Hellfire is/was indeed our lead coder and together with uzurpaotr responsible for the DD ~ -> With hellfire's dissapearence, Hyronymus is the sole remaining management figure that was chosen at an earlier stage Zuu? I have seen him sometimes on MSN, but I havn't talked to him. I think his MSN is public on the forums. He is not online at the moment. ~ Well, For now, i vote Hyronymus as the leader I'm slightly suprised noone commented on the minutes, which state i declared myself as leader last week. Oh well. -> But i'd like to be involved in management, with Hyronymus Hyronymus? -> that was my point. Real life has caught up on me too and I must say I can go along with Steve^ very well I also feel he likes to manage the project and I would suggest to vote for Steve as leader too~ Metalcore? If hyronymus does not want to be leader, I also believe steve would do a good job.~ -> Hyronymus Point is: does anyone object to 2 captains?~ -> !not I~ Zuu? Will there be any iuses with 2 captians that wont be with one? ~ -> communications issues? Hyronymus Not if Steve^ and I divide the leadership~ I agree. ~ ??meetingrules Purno -> Hyronymus? I.e., Steve^ has more knowledge of computer stuff than I do and I prefer hardcore management stuff above computer-related stuff~ -> Then our decision is to have a joint leadership between Hyronymus and myself, Steve. Any opposed? I promise you will not be booted :P ~ Zuu? If you beleave in 2 captained management, I see nothing bad with it. ~ ! I wonder if we need a name roll to tally everyones vote No, i think we're good We have no bad votes, so i think i'll move on ! fine with me~ 3. Progress on the Design Document Well.. erm. Any progress? ~ -> -> Hyronymus~ Hellfire and uzurpator are both missing in absence, I have no real suggestion what to do with this topic~ Metalcore? <- -> Zuu? Perhaps email them and ask about the current state? ~ I agree, emails need to be sent. -> And forum threads made Hyronymus? -> as minuteman I'll take care of the emails what forumthreads made?~ Fine with me. Well, i mean we could post on the forums, if that helped. Metalcore? perhaps private messages would be good as well. Especially if they have e-mail PM notification on.~ Yes. Anything else? <- I'm not sure what that means.. ~ ! no comment ;)~ Ok, lets move on 4. Progress of the Management Group 4a. Website + Wiki maintenance -> Zuu, care to talk about the website group? <- or Hyronymus first or Zuu -> ! Zuu first, sorry~ Yes, Zuu. I will leave the TE project, at least temporary -> So someone else has to takeover the leadership of the website team.~ That's not what i expected to hear. eis_os? I think the website isn't that important for TE than the design doc, I think every menpower should be invested in the DD, so TE can move on -> -> Haveing a nice Website but no project?~ Hyronymus? -> The website is important to communicate to possibly interested coders, artists etc but indeed not as important as the DD. It's not smart to work with >2-3 people on the DD though -> !as far as I see, currently there is no one working on it really also, the website (at least the wiki) functions as a communications board for devs~ ->> Metalcore? While he (oskar) makes a good point, some people are simply no good at design docs, those that have little knowledge of programming and such, yet would make good websites. also, a web site would come along sooner than a DD would, and would be a bit of a morale booster ! I agree with Metalcore~ <- once people have a tangible website, they may think "hey, these guys are going somewhere"~ ! amen~ I agree with both points ! me too ! me three eis_os is right that we need to priortise the DD and i think that is most important -> But we have some website related tasks that involve the DD, such as putting the documentation online -> What goes with that may be searchable subjects and so on, i would prefer to have such a system from early on, so that we can implement the DD into it straight away And as Metalcore says, we have many people that are good at many things. ~ I'll leave my second point for a minute eis_os? Maybe the DD can be seperated more in parts, so already parts can be published, the start is always the big step~ !ohh, and the website group can already make that online -> I agree, hopefully that can be done. Purno? -> I think the website needs to tell something about the TE project, from a very summarized text to a more detailed text, because I think it's pretty hard to understand what's going on ~ Zuu? Some sumarizing steps, might be possible doable by other peoples than the core DD folk~ -> Metalcore? what eis_os said goes along with my comments about morale. If a part of the DD is published, people will see it and get more motivated to work~ -> before the next meeting, it may be worth setting out some objectives for the website and other groups -> Perhaps me and Hyronymus can do them and they can be checked over, rather than trying to do them in a chaotic meeting This includes the DD, wiki and website ~ eis_os? <- -> As my suggestion, start with some basic things, with DD Platform Ports, you can't do much wrong ehm Parts~ I hope so :) Hyronymus, are you ok with the objective thing? ~ Steve^: very much OK~ We can arrange something after the meeting -> eis_os? ! agreed, Steve^~ I would suggest some deadlines for small steps, otherwise it will move on to be moved to I do it next week as I followed TE, it's the most problem, things will be moved to later~ -> Hyronymus? I think Steve^ and I can commit ourselves to objectives for the website group for the next meeting. Are you OK with that Steve^?~ I am. I have a comment on the wiki now too Are we planning on using it hold the DD or create our own system? I wouldn't want to be stuck with everything on the wiki and have trouble porting it to a new system in the future ~ -> Hyronymus -> Our own system sounds better as we can mould it to our demands more easily. -> Also, the look of it is more flexible~ eis_os What is this system? ~ Well, something for displaying the DD so all the categories can be read I don't think we need to allow the public to edit it to beging with, changes can be submitted and checked over -> ! agrees on that, good point! *~ this whould reduce the security checkings that wiki's need, lessing the load on the new system ~ eis_os -> The DD can be converted to every text system, I think there will be enough men power for it in the website group so before you start 3 discussion about it, publish it as plain xml (as I do currently with mine) or some other easy system -> and don't use the wiki, it's painfully slow for me ;) ~ Zuu I agree with eis_os, xml will be enought. ~ -> I also agree with the xml. The simplier the better. It will ensure we keep everything in the same format too !PS: My design doc is not for public, so no links please -> The wiki feels a little off to me too. Wikipedia is great, but i feel alot of work goes into modding it, which we may as well put into our own system. ~ Zuu For the website, an CMS would probably be the most rapid way to get a working website. And, it will need less time from programmers, I think. ~ -> eis_os -> -> Will it maintained right? ! come again please ~ As most CMS have from time to time security flaws, there have to someone responsible ~ ->> Same goes for the Wiki, that needs to be maintained too If we set small steps for each group, a full CMS may not be needed ~ We can build it as we go. ~ Hyronymus ! I am sorry, If I brought up a big discussion.~ as I said, the Wiki needs maintenance too probably someone who takes responisiblty for software updates is required in the website group too~ ! well then I would say have a good backup of your work Oh yes, backup every night ish. ~ Purno? Sorry, missed you I always have problems with understanding how Wiki's work. I often try to open links and I get something where I can edit something or whatever. Anyways, I would suggest not using a wiki for a website, as it is not that user friendly, IMO. [/FYI]~ Ok -> To summarize (correct me if i'm wrong), we are not going to use a wiki? Hyronymus? ! Thats because that page hasn't been written yet ~ -> ! the wiki doesn't say it isn't written, IIRC I suggest Steve^ and I should reconsider the use of the Wiki entirely. IF we stick to it, only for devs i.e.~ Zuu? The wiki is not meant for non-developers, so users should not be in the wiki realy. ~ -> ! important to remember, Steve^~ My thought is a purpose made website, for showing the public and a nice set of forums for everything else We can have private dev sections, which don't need to look pretty And discussion points in the forums (We could link to the actual DD pages, if we wanted) !please don't start even a new forum phpbb Not now, but eventually :) ~ Any opposed to NOT having a wiki? ~ -> Zuu? -> Morning. ~ I wonder what this discussion are gonig to lead to?~ I'm about to stop the discussion It was good time to wake up. (lol) I'd have a website AND wiki ~ !So I can sum up, DD will be in a form of XML, the wiki will be for devs, a CMS is setup and used. (A maintainer in website is responsible for software updates It may be worth posting the summary from the minutes in a forum thread, with a confirmation vote Well, either a CMS and maintainer, or just make our own slowly. That'll depend on what CMSs are available ! will do~ But will have to be posted on the forums. Next! 4b. EmpireBot Well, TinFoil is the local EmpireBot He, much like the proposed developments for the website, is being built slowly As you can see, he knows the meeting agenda, and i just send him a command to move him along He is also logging this meeting. -> Any questions? Metalcore what else can he do?~ Well, he has the topic control that was made for the #tycoon channel. There isn't much in it, but ?? gives some info on the topic or a link Right now, it is used for the meetingrules link As you've seen I can program anything else we want him to do, given time. ~ -> Hyronymus~ It's not our purpose to make it a toy bot. It should support the chairman and minute maker during meetings.~ Of course. And he does. Anything else? ! no comment~ Then we'll move on 4c. Available test-systems overview Anyone? -> Hyronymus I believe there was some confusion about this topic As I recall, there was discussion about a list of available systems on which TE could be tested -> it seems as if such list isn't made though. It seems to be unimportant for now imo! +~ argh *~ Yes, it sounds very low priority -> Zuu? PjayTycy did made a excell file ? ? ? ~ -> Hyronymus I can ask Pjaytycy if he did. I suggest I send him a PM ~ Oke next? !sure~ ! it should be someweher at the forum. ~ 5. Progress of the Code Group 5a. Setup development environments on our machines. (code) Code group? !not here~ 5b. progress on the SDL demo !what progress~ Yes, we need a code group. :) -> Zuu Who was responsible??~ -> Hellfire or Chris? Hyronymus Hellfire was the lead coder so I think I should ask Hellfire about the SDL demo too but allow me to check on the forums first ok I'll post what I'll do about it~ Next? 6. User Interface progress ! no progress~ According to the old minutes, jfs was working on it He isn't here (away this week) Anything else? -> Zuu No leader was elected at the meeting when the task was decided. ~ Ok, that will need to be an objective :P -> Hyronymus it seems that uzurpator posted an SDl demo *SDL http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=13272&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 ~ Interesting We'll have to make contact and get more information Next! Or any comments? !well what will be the license of these demos? -> Hyronymus how relevant is that if we have no clue of the current status of the demo?~ -> Zuu TE is agreed to use a open source licence.~ -> -> I think the demos will use the same license as the game, which is GPL or something? eis_os Well for me it's a question, I don't want to have one say me it's zlib, I will use it and improve it, then someone says it will be GPL ~ -> Hyronymus I will contact uzurpator and ask him about the licence type AND the status of the demo~ Ok, anything else? Then we shall move on. :) 7. Any other business (AOB) Any other business? hmm? -> Hyronymus -> you're skipping User Interface progress~ We did that? There wasn't any ! yes we did.~ ! = we did UI progress.~ We jumped backwards it seems, when Hyronymus brought the SDL engine to our attention -> But was there anything else about it? Hyronymus? my mistake then, sorry. Nothing else~ Purno? Still at AOB? yes ! well I did have some comments to alot general stuff If you ever might need my graphical help, although I am not that skilled, you can always ask (that includes website graphics and GUI)~ !so any other things todo?~ Post on the forums in relevant threads and people will be sure to take you up on that offer, Purno eis_os, anything in particular? a) About the XML, about meetings, about new coders b) I hope nobody mind if comment here No, go ahead. The first thing, if there are lesser topics to manage, maybe do some free for all chat with a fixed time (prefered one hour earlier) This could be attract more people then the mangement of X and Y -> Steve^? Well, the different groups can hold their own meetings, which they can then decide on their own rules. These meetings should involve many people And if we can keep order, i'd prefer to do it. I'm not sure if you came to the meetings before we made this system ~ !oy~ (I didn't said you should change that system, but make more room for new people, so they get more involved) !old meetings >_<~ ok eis_os Metalcore, what? -> Hyronymus? * * * eis_os somehow grabs the moderationship !(I'm just saying the old meetings were very chaotic)~ new people will get involved if they know that TE even exists, hence the need for a decent, informative website~ -> Hyronymus? and eis_os, nobody cares if you comment here. That's why a meeting is for, expecially the AOB topic~ Ok, eis_os, continue with your next point. Hyronymus: while AOB is there, people maybe don't wait that long, but thats a differnt point Next point: New coders Is there anyone responsible for new coders, aka someone how can be contacted? -> Hyronymus? good point, I think Steve^ and me myself could take that role, if noone else objects~ -> Zuu? I dont object on that. But wasnt that asinged to the management group. But still if Hyronymus and Steve^ wants to do that, thats fine with me.~ -> Zuu, Steve^ and I ARE the management group~ Well I think there should be one stick in the General Forums for it Hyronymus? ! oh, forgot that the groups are not grops of people, but of work. Sorry ~ ! Actually, i don't think we are. But that should be sorted out later ~ !damn :p~ well I think the FAQ should be changed to have that part in it ~ i agree anything else eis_os? I'll take the silence as a no. eis_os_? ANything else? The XML, if you stick with XML, be aware you have to maintain your own index, or make a programm that do it I think that was all ok Any other any other business? !none here~ -> Zuu !me thinks I already have talked to much today A small notice: -> I want to say that the primary reason for why I am leaving the project is that I a m going to study transport and logistics at university level. So if I will still work on something similar to TE, I think (and hope) that I can do that with some one locally, which makes communications easier. ~ Fair enough, eis_os, if you have anything else for the next meeting, you can tell us beforehand and we can add it to the agenda.. if it's important :) ~ Ok, that everything? Ask me in somedays, I didn't want to be to much involved, I can't work on WinRT and TE ~ Last chance for AOB... 8. Next meeting 2 weeks? !sounds sound~ -> I did actually wonder about asking forum people, what time they prefer There may be a better slot than weekednd evenings !alot earlier~ !agreed Such as weekend afternoons :) !time OK but interval should roughly be 2 weeks~ To be decided by us then Over the next week? !what Steve^?~ When the meeting will be, to be decided in the next week -> After we ask the forum about good times Hyronymus? -> !and make the poll accessable by all sounds good, I'll create a topic but without a poll as one can never add all possible options~ Zuu Or say a prelemenary time, that will be used, if nothing else have been decided, to avoid late anouncements? ~ -> Hyronymus the late anouncement was solely my issue but my real life was very odd the past week ~ !end of meeting~ Well, if we have it done in a week, there will be at least another week until the meeting and if we email people, it should be good ! I know that. But for sure that wont be the last time there will be a late anouncement. Having a prelemenary time set today we maybe can avoid that.~ === End of Meeting === === Meeting rules no longer apply ===